#31  
Old 02-17-2018, 01:02 PM
Turnipseed Turnipseed is offline
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Originally Posted by Karl View Post
Mr.Turnip,
Just guessing...but:
1) if you ever play in a PDGA tournament run by me (or any other reputable TD), you will probably end up 'donating' your money - via being DQ'D for pulling one of your stunts - and have zero chance of cashing. Congratulations! This of course will make a lot of your card-mates VERY happy.
or,
2) if you ever are a TD for a PDGA event and allow such personal "logic" to trump existing rules, be prepared to have your 'TD-ship' revoked, etc.
I'm not sure what your purpose in commenting is, but I should make it clear that I have no interest in defying the rules. I also have no reason to give them supreme authority.

I have played in a few dozen pdga tournaments, have never "pulled a stunt" or caused a controversy, and have generally been very well pleased with my place in the final standings. More importantly to me, I have enjoyed myself and have been a pleasant, fair, and respectful competitor.

Some of you underestimate the frequency with which pdga rules are broken or bent, both by players and directors. Sometimes this is due to ignorance, or negligence. Occasionally it is cheating. Most often it is because those involved recognize that the rule is inadequate to deal with a situation or is less important than doing the right thing.

I would guess that Mr. Sauls is a reputable TD. Does his "slight rules violation," described above, change that? Certainly not. It was done with understanding of a situation and good will toward the competitors. Perhaps Karl would see it fitting to revoke his right to run a pdga tournament, but I guess Karl would be in the minority.
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  #32  
Old 02-17-2018, 02:10 PM
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BrotherDave BrotherDave is offline
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Originally Posted by F. Howl View Post
3.03-B.10 Player Misconduct
Possession of alcohol from the start of play until the player’s scorecard is submitted is not allowed.

This is the only mention in the rule book I could find that specifies an action that alludes to an official end of a round. Nothing about final putts or completing the last hole. I might just have some weak sauce search terms.
Seems kind of harsh. Why not until player's scorecard is being submitted? I need my post-round celebratory IPA ASAP.
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Originally Posted by DavidSauls View Post
Bicycle-type conveyances are prohibited by the rules, too.
That's clearly a tricycle-type conveyance.

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  #33  
Old 02-17-2018, 04:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Turnipseed View Post
It's perplexing that people are so willing to relinquish intellectual self-sufficiency in even the most elementary of matters. Do rules have a place and purpose? No one denies that they do. Is the function of rules to replace the need for basic thought? Apparently, for some of you.
The problem is that "basic thought" can result in different conclusions when multiple thinkers are involved. Rules are meant to set boundaries on the natural divergence of conclusions, limiting the divergence of thought to interpretation of the rule.

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  #34  
Old 02-19-2018, 11:44 AM
IHearChains IHearChains is offline
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Originally Posted by Turnipseed View Post
I should make it clear that I have no interest in defying the rules.
Wait, aren't you the same guy who argued it was "common sense" to count a putt good even though it bounced out? And also offered to take a mulligan reputt as a "considerate" alternative in case your cardmates didn't count the spitout?

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  #35  
Old 02-19-2018, 12:42 PM
biscoe biscoe is offline
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Originally Posted by DavidSauls View Post

The commonsense interpretation of this prohibition is that it applies while actually playing. Which would be something like, from the player's first shot to putting out on the final hole.
Actually I think the call of "start" is a fairly common sense way of determining when the round "starts".

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  #36  
Old 02-19-2018, 12:49 PM
biscoe biscoe is offline
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Ain't it the truth.

At Stoney Hill, when we ran singles tournaments, we engaged in a slight rules violation and started divisions in different places, for different rounds. 1st round we'd do just like everyone else, start MPO on #1 and work the rest around the scoreboard. For round 2, we'd start MPO on hole 7; for round 3, hole 13; and back to the standard for round 4. It gave everyone a chance to have a convenient starting hole at some point---and a distant one, too.

People seemed to like it, and we got favorable responses on a questionnaire, even from the local MPOs. But, sadly, no other TDs adopted the concept.
why is it a rules violation?

around here the ladies almost always get to start on hole 1 or another preferable hole.
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Old 02-19-2018, 01:45 PM
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DavidSauls DavidSauls is offline
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Originally Posted by biscoe View Post
why is it a rules violation?

around here the ladies almost always get to start on hole 1 or another preferable hole.
As I look, you're right. I'm in the clear.

What was in my mind was the competition manual rule about grouping players by player rating:

Player Rating grouping; players within a division may be grouped by player rating to set first round groups. Highest rated player starting on the lowest number hole, the second highest rated player starting on the following hole, etc.

Which doesn't affect where divisions are placed on the course. Whew!

Now, to look for another minor rule, a real one, which I can violate, just for the thrill.

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  #38  
Old 02-20-2018, 11:49 AM
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F. Howl F. Howl is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IHearChains View Post
Wait, aren't you the same guy who argued it was "common sense" to count a putt good even though it bounced out? And also offered to take a mulligan reputt as a "considerate" alternative in case your cardmates didn't count the spitout?
Yes he is.

Turnipseed, are you in the Novice or Rec division? I can't imagine a card where everyone thought it was ok to count a spitout, unless they were all new to tournament play (i.e. had no "common sense" in the realm of competitive disc golf.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turnipseed View Post
Here are a couple of real-life examples:
My card started early, even before two minutes, because we misinterpreted some shouting and saw someone throwing. I cannot remember what rules may or may not have applied to that situation, but we did the right thing, finished the hole, and carried on as normal even though a few minutes before everyone else.

A gentle putt (mine) from about ten feet bounced off of another putter and out of the basket. I would have been willing to make another putt out of consideration for my cardmates, but they immediately and unanimously decided to count the putt. That was the common sense choice and I agreed with it.

The rules do exist for a reason. I prefer to understand the reason and enforce the spirit which cannot possibly be perfectly expressed in writing.

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  #39  
Old 02-20-2018, 07:39 PM
Turnipseed Turnipseed is offline
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Originally Posted by F. Howl View Post
Yes he is.

Turnipseed, are you in the Novice or Rec division? I can't imagine a card where everyone thought it was ok to count a spitout, unless they were all new to tournament play (i.e. had no "common sense" in the realm of competitive disc golf.)
That incident happened in the advanced division, some of the others were in int. I haven't ever played rec or novice. And I wasn't proposing to take a mulligan, but to putt again and count the extra stroke, by the book. The other players were the ones who insisted on counting it, not me. I wasn't bothered either way. To help confirm that the card was not made up of lackadaisical morons, here is another incident from the same round: A player, not me this time, putted from about 10 feet, and steeply downhill. The putt was centered but hit the inside bottom of the cage before the chains, and bounced out. No one considered counting that putt because it happened within the normal interface of play. In the case of my putt, yes, we failed to clear a putter, but it was automatically understood that it would have been impossible for the disc to bounce out otherwise. In other, very shaky theoretical words, the player cleared his putter on the scorecard instead of physically.
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  #40  
Old 02-20-2018, 09:49 PM
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A gentle putt (mine) from about ten feet bounced off of another putter and out of the basket. I would have been willing to make another putt out of consideration for my cardmates, but they immediately and unanimously decided to count the putt. That was the common sense choice and I agreed with it.

What??? This must be a regional thing. Don't get me wrong. Giving the old guys on my card a few minutes to get up to the bathroom and back is cool.....but, not counting shots because they did not go your way? It is not incumbent upon your card, to make the call on counting your shots or not. It is a self policed game, count your own shots....all of them. Man, this would not go over very well at the oft competitive PDGA events around here.....or at State Championships....or Worlds. I think you are trolling this board.
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