Reach back era is over, long live the whip.

[sidewinder22]

Originally Posted by biscoe

I am constantly telling players that the giant reachback does nothing in the woods of Virginia but endanger trees.

James Conrad?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=miUWAtEQEuk#t=9m20s

[Dan Ensor]

I find a longer backswing helps load the levers.

[pmay5]

Originally Posted by sidewinder22

Catapults/trebuchets use a sling to whip.



Seppo "reaching back".


I just swing back and forth like a pendulum, if I want more distance I swing back longer away from my center of gravity moving forward.

Are you saying that a "reach back" is similar to a catapult launch, pretty much straight back and straight through? That seems to help with my accuracy, pulling straight through to the target.
But a whip, where the "backswing" is actually curled across the chest, is like an actual whip, curled up and then unleashed with a crack!? It feels like that would lead to accuracy problems, finding that right time to release on target, when your arm is not moving in a straight plane.

[Blobfish]

Tip of the whip makes sense... in fact, that's the most salient point I gleaned from this discussion:
https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forum...d.php?t=132500, the difference being that the OP there said he was keeping the throwing arm passive and cranking up the initial angular acceleration with a low radius twist (forcing the trailing arm held close to pass around the body) with the throwing arm then unfurling like a whip.

[sidewinder22]

Originally Posted by pmay5

Are you saying that a "reach back" is similar to a catapult launch, pretty much straight back and straight through? That seems to help with my accuracy, pulling straight through to the target.
But a whip, where the "backswing" is actually curled across the chest, is like an actual whip, curled up and then unleashed with a crack!? It feels like that would lead to accuracy problems, finding that right time to release on target, when your arm is not moving in a straight plane.

A towel that is already curled up will not whip as hard as one being dynamically curled.

Ever use a Sling Shot - pull it further back and it elastically slings/whips/springs further, same thing with a pendulum. Also goes straight much more consistently.

[BrotherDave]

Not really clear or helpful IMO. Seppo definitely reaches back. Reach back is just poor nomenclature for a back swing that's a by-product of getting your body positioned and loading up for the throw. He doesn't explain the difference between "sling" (poor word choice again) and "whip." I think by sling he means strong arming or rounding where you don't really get the multiplier effect created by using leverage. If you consciously reach back and then pull on a straight line without the levers doing anything your velocity ceiling is capped pretty hard. But slinging the disc out on a leveraged arc is exactly the goal so that's gonna confuse people.

[Consult20]

Originally Posted by BrotherDave

Not really clear or helpful IMO. Seppo definitely reaches back. Reach back is just poor nomenclature for a back swing that's a by-product of getting your body positioned and loading up for the throw. He doesn't explain the difference between "sling" (poor word choice again) and "whip." I think by sling he means strong arming or rounding where you don't really get the multiplier effect created by using leverage. If you consciously reach back and then pull on a straight line without the levers doing anything your velocity ceiling is capped pretty hard. But slinging the disc out on a leveraged arc is exactly the goal so that's gonna confuse people.

I actually thought he was referring to the power pocket, where the whip throw gets into the power pocket and the sling throw does not.

[BrotherDave]

Originally Posted by Consult20

I actually thought he was referring to the power pocket, where the whip throw gets into the power pocket and the sling throw does not.

Well that's rounding in a nut shell. Power pocket is more of a bent-elbow characteristic though and not necessarily the only way to big distance. Power pocket isn't as noticeable to players with Swedish style or really wide-rails. A lot of the same stuff is happening but the "pocket" is bigger and hard to distinguish.

[rhatton1]

Originally Posted by DiscFifty

Reachback era is over?

It was over years ago.

Working around the disc/door frame drills etc been around on the youtubes for at least 5 years.

I don't really know what DD is talking about with the sling as he doesn't describe it, it sounds like he's talking about a throw with the hand leading the disc. The whip is just leveraging the far side of the disc and doing it with a loose whipping arm, there're a few ways to achieve this but it's as simple as that really. Something that has been discussed ad infintum on here for years and before that less clearly on DGR and before that the PDGA forums with DD himself. What's changed in the last few years is SW22's body mechanics stuff that helps set the body up for the most powerful leverage of that disc (which are now being roundly ignored by Disc Golfs form messiah who doesn't understand them and we're back to focusing on byproducts of other mechanisms, yippee....)

[biscoe]

Originally Posted by sidewinder22

James Conrad?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=miUWAtEQEuk#t=9m20s

There are exceptions to everything. A typical player neither has the natural talent James does nor have they been playing since they were 8.

Matt Hammersten is an even better example. He throws with what i like to call "internet technique" very successfully and has risen to a high rating in a pretty short time. He is also a good dude and very willing to teach. This has resulted in a bunch of amateur players in NOVA who are so caught up in worrying about how they are throwing that they have no idea where they are throwing.