#1861  
Old 06-14-2017, 07:03 AM
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dreadlock86 dreadlock86 is offline
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for the next 3 reviews of Harmony Bends:
5+5+5 or 5+5+4.5 and it beats out Flip for #2
5+4.5+4.5 or 5+5+4 and it ties Flip and Flip stays at #2 (more reviews)
4.5+4.5+4.5 or 5+4.5+4 and it ties Rolling Ridge and RR stays at #3
4.5+4.5+4 and it ties Harmon Hills and Bucksnort, coming in at #6


it would need 7 more 5.0 reviews and nothing else lower to beat out Lakeside
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  #1862  
Old 06-14-2017, 08:16 AM
NDABRUSH NDABRUSH is offline
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Did anyone read the last Blue Rib review. I think it is about 12 words or so. This is an example of the kind of reviews that we used to see when it was Flip and Idlewild were battling it out for 1st. The more that things change...........
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  #1863  
Old 06-14-2017, 08:33 AM
biscoe biscoe is online now
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Originally Posted by dreadlock86 View Post


as a side note, i wonder if any other course designer has had multiple courses in the Top 10 at the same time, or even just anytime ever. Selah almost doesn't count but Harmony Bends will put John with 3 courses in the Top 10 at once and that probably won't change any time soon. sounds like Flat Creek has a chance at the list and if 20 people ever make it to Frost Valley then Mr. Houck could boast having designed half of the Top 10.
Pretty sure Chuck had more than one Highbridge course in the top 10 at one point ages ago.
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  #1864  
Old 06-14-2017, 09:39 AM
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Cgkdisc Cgkdisc is offline
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The thing about ratings and reviews here is that design quality, however perceived, usually takes a back seat to the perceived quality of course equipment, signage, amenities and maintenance. This makes sense, since for many, it's your playing experience that drives your rating versus the more abstract evaluation of design quality which fewer players have the experience to quantify.

The ratings for courses done by experienced designers like Houck, McDaniel, myself and many others are subject to how much money our clients spend on course infrastructure, clearing, planting and maintaining in the beginning and ongoing. This is out of our hands in most cases in the same way the original architect for your home isn't responsible for whether it is maintained, upgraded or gets run down over time.

The rankings of our courses over time are more subject to how well our clients upgrade, maintain and market their courses independent of the initial design. As Biscoe points out, the Highbridge courses are a high profile example of a great start with declining maintenance depressing their more recent ratings. I'm just happy those who do visit there seem to still have a good if not great experience to not knock down the ratings too much.

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  #1865  
Old 06-14-2017, 10:17 AM
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DavidSauls DavidSauls is offline
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Originally Posted by Cgkdisc View Post
The thing about ratings and reviews here is that design quality, however perceived, usually takes a back seat to the perceived quality of course equipment, signage, amenities and maintenance. This makes sense, since for many, it's your playing experience that drives your rating versus the more abstract evaluation of design quality which fewer players have the experience to quantify.
Not to mention, the land available to you.

Great land, and freedom given the designer to use it, is a huge factor in course quality.
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  #1866  
Old 06-14-2017, 10:29 AM
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Cgkdisc Cgkdisc is offline
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Originally Posted by DavidSauls View Post
Not to mention, the land available to you.

Great land, and freedom given the designer to use it, is a huge factor in course quality.
It's true that a course with an average design on excellent terrain will likely rate better than an excellent design on weaker property. Some of my best design efforts were on weaker properties and 9-hole layouts knowing that the course would still be perceived as average at best.

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  #1867  
Old 06-14-2017, 10:44 AM
Cerealman Cerealman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dreadlock86 View Post
for the next 3 reviews of Harmony Bends:
5+5+5 or 5+5+4.5 and it beats out Flip for #2
5+4.5+4.5 or 5+5+4 and it ties Flip and Flip stays at #2 (more reviews)
Technically ... Flip City is currently at 4.8504, so if Harmony Bends only generates 14 points in its next three reviews (5+4.5+4.5 or 5+5+4), it would have a rating of 4.8500 and be in third place anyway.

Though, I don't know how many decimal places Tim goes to break a "tie" in the ratings.

Forgive my math nerdiness. I'm hoping Harmony Bends debuts at No. 2 anyway. It's a GREAT course.
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  #1868  
Old 06-14-2017, 11:28 AM
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BogeyNoMore BogeyNoMore is offline
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Originally Posted by Cgkdisc View Post
It's true that a course with an average design on excellent terrain will likely rate better than an excellent design on weaker property. Some of my best design efforts were on weaker properties and 9-hole layouts knowing that the course would still be perceived as average at best.
Let me preface this with, I've never designed a course myself... but I've often thought about the concept behind Chuck's statement. I've seen some particularly blessed parcels of land where you could seemingly throw 18 tees and 18 baskets up in the air, and wherever they randomly landed, you'd probably end up with a decent course. Some of the best design work I've seen has been on relatively flat & open courses. Creating something out of nothing takes real vision and creativity.

That said, I can't stress enough that before putting a course on a really great piece of property, please get an experienced designer with a good track record to take a look at the property & proposed layout. I'm convinced that make the difference between ending up with a 3.0/3.5 or a 4.5/5.0 type of course.

Put another way, it could be the difference between ending up with a course players may not be willing to pay to play repeatedly, or a course that every local will gladly purchase an annual membership for, and travelers will happily pay to play.

Last edited by BogeyNoMore; 06-14-2017 at 11:32 AM.
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  #1869  
Old 06-14-2017, 11:28 AM
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roggenb3 roggenb3 is offline
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How in the heck is Maple Hill all the way down to 15? Oh yeah, the pay increase thing...nevermind.
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  #1870  
Old 06-14-2017, 11:49 AM
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DavidSauls DavidSauls is offline
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How in the heck is Maple Hill all the way down to 15? Oh yeah, the pay increase thing...nevermind.
One P.O.'d patron, I believe.
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