#1971  
Old 08-04-2017, 04:43 PM
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BogeyNoMore BogeyNoMore is offline
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I don't care if you're the lovechild of Korver & Climo, a total n00b, or somewhere in between: HB is a special course.

The front 9 are strong.* I'm not the only person who thought 1-9 was the best nine hole stretch I've ever played. Really had me pondering what rating I'd have given as a niner on their own... and there are some spectacular holes on the back 9 as well (including 2 of the 3 best holes on the course, IMO).


* think of Sidious/Palpatine when he says "The Force is strong with you," to Anakin.
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Last edited by BogeyNoMore; 08-04-2017 at 04:46 PM.
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  #1972  
Old 08-04-2017, 05:25 PM
Lazerface Lazerface is online now
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Originally Posted by BogeyNoMore View Post
As has been addressed ad nauseum in several threads prior to this one, outlier ratings really only affect the overall average when a course has relatively few reviews. Once a course reaches a critical mass of reviews, (twenty seems to work pretty well), things tend to work themselves out pretty well.


#13... and yes, that's an awesome tree arcing across the fairway, with the river skirting the left side all the way down.
Good point, they don't do much to the average over time. Based on all I have read I think the ratings are good as is.

#13 is a great hole for sure. Maybe the signature hole, but that's a hard sell since Harmony has so many. Just remove the damn nettle ya know... I'm such a snowflake.
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  #1973  
Old 08-04-2017, 06:04 PM
Lazerface Lazerface is online now
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Originally Posted by ru4por View Post
Why? The opinion of someone that does not agree with the majority of reviewer, should be considered invalid? If some guy doesn't like the course, he should be able to rate it as he wishes. I completely fail to understand how or why the opinions of some should be considered more valid.

Sorry Lazer, not directed at you personally.

A great example would be my take of Flip. I really enjoy this course, but would likely rate it a solid three/three and a half disc course. It simply does not provide me with those things I would need to put it in the top ten courses I have ever played.
They should absolutely be able to rate it as they wish, but I was purposing eliminating outliers from the overall average. People could still view the review. You're right though, it's 100% subjective.

I'm imagining a course with 150 ratings and a 4.8 average, then a 1.0 review comes along. By eliminating this review from the average I guess we are calling it "invalid". But I'm OK with that.

This is going to be a terrible analogy because I'm going to conflate scientific facts with a rating system that is 100% subjective, but I guess I see the 1.0 reviewer kind of like a flat earthers opinion, while I see all the opinions that lead to a 4.8 as the opinion of settled science. Over time it's OK to assume the 1.0 rating is BS and it could therefore be removed from the average and considered invalid. The same as me telling a friend that the Youtube videos he watched that lead him down the flat earth rabbit hole are invalid - without me even watching them.

But as another poster pointed out to me the occasional outlier has little affect on the overall average when these courses get a good number of reviews, so it's really a non issue. I have no issue with the ratings system, but started reading the thread and threw something out there.

I would assume your review of Flip would not be considered an outlier. When there is only a range of 1-5 a 3/3.5 should NOT be considered an outlier (assuming Flip is like a 4.5). This compounds the point that outliers as I see them are likely a non issue.
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  #1974  
Old 08-04-2017, 06:09 PM
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Originally Posted by BogeyNoMore View Post
I don't care if you're the lovechild of Korver & Climo, a total n00b, or somewhere in between: HB is a special course.

The front 9 are strong.* I'm not the only person who thought 1-9 was the best nine hole stretch I've ever played. Really had me pondering what rating I'd have given as a niner on their own... and there are some spectacular holes on the back 9 as well (including 2 of the 3 best holes on the course, IMO).


* think of Sidious/Palpatine when he says "The Force is strong with you," to Anakin.
Word.
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  #1975  
Old 08-04-2017, 09:09 PM
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I disagree that Trusted Reviews are the same as all the reviews. I do believe that not all Trusted Reviews are created equally.

Personally I always click on the TR check mark to get rid of all the noob reviews. Then I scroll through the TR's to see if somebody I know, who writes reviews that I jive with, reviewed the course. Those are the TR's I listen to. If none of them are on there then I'll just try and mish mash the rest together.

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  #1976  
Old 08-04-2017, 10:32 PM
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BrotherDave BrotherDave is offline
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Originally Posted by ru4por View Post
This is where I was going with my post. I have maintained in this thread all along, that TR's opinions are no more valid than anyone else. They may add more value for many using the review feature, but as a traveling golfer, some TR's have a vastly different set of priorities in their review standards, than I might find important. Many place great weight on course design elements. I could care not care less. The hole offers no reasonable lines......so what? The course is set with too many holes left to right (lefty or sidearm friendly).....so what? The point, as it has been all along from me is.........we all have different priorities and things we look for in a course. I am more than comfortable with a two disc review from some noob, complaining about the lack of picnic tables. As the discerning traveler, I will read through the reviews, good and bad, and glean the information I feel important. I maintain, I don't really think the review and rating here are broken, in any fashion.
If you're not particularly particular about DG courses, why would you be on DGcoursereview.com to begin with? That's like somebody that thinks all beer tastes the same and doesn't mind drinking Milwaukee's Best spending time on BeerAdvocate.com or something. The greatest weight should be placed on design elements, otherwise it'd be DGCourseLocator.com
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  #1977  
Old 08-04-2017, 10:39 PM
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I bet he thought everybody who went solo down the Soul Train dance line were equal as well.
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  #1978  
Old 08-04-2017, 11:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrotherDave View Post
If you're not particularly particular about DG courses, why would you be on DGcoursereview.com to begin with? That's like somebody that thinks all beer tastes the same and doesn't mind drinking Milwaukee's Best spending time on BeerAdvocate.com or something. The greatest weight should be placed on design elements, otherwise it'd be DGCourseLocator.com
I am pretty particular about DG courses. My point was that TR's per-say, do not always represent my particular concerns, wants or wishes. I thought I had expressed that pretty well.

TR's reviews do not always have more value, to me, than other reviews on a course.

I find it odd that anyone should feel entitled to tell me, or any golfer, what should be weighted most, in the decision to play a course, or not. If I weight garbage cans, benches and tee signs, more than course design, I want to feel some love for it. If proximity to a highway, low chances of losing a disc and cart friendly are important to me, I want to feel no shame. TR's may not be the best resource for those kind of things. And people should be free to rank/rate a course with those type things as the primary consideration.
As New stated, I too have found some reviewers that seem to have the same opinion on what constitutes a good course. I seek them out.....some are TR's....some not.

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  #1979  
Old 08-05-2017, 12:33 AM
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Originally Posted by justin View Post
Sure, from the user standpoint there's no difference because you just click a button and you see the reviews and maybe there's a retabulation in the backgroun. As for TimG's side of things he would have to set the review page to be able to tabulate an average rating based on reviews from a list of reviewers which is not simply "all reviews" as he has things setup currently. This would involve something like creating a new table just for the trusted reviewers which he would have to move people into as they gained that status. Even if he doesn't move the trusted reviewers, the account property that grants them that status would now have to be accounted for in course ratings and he would have to rewrite a lot of crap to make this work. He's a smart guy. I'm sure he could figure it out. I just wouldn't hold your breath that this is a project he wants to take on.

Let's say this feature was implemented and it was extremely popular. I have a concern for validity of those future trusted reviewer's reviews. There would be a potential corruption since each course would only have a couple trusted reviewer reviews. A few of these reviewers could give poor rating to a private course who didn't let the trusted reviewer play for free or they could inflate course ratings due to personal relationships with designers, land owners, etc.

Of course I hope that would not happen but it is a possibility - if that feature were to become a big deal.

In the end, if you're on the fence about playing a course and a trusted reviewer's review is what will turn your "maybe I'll play it" into an "I'll probably play it" then don't waste your time traveling to that course. It's great that a lot of people take a lot of time and care to review a course in such a detailed way but it's not like trip advisor where you're trying to decide on spending $$$$ to goto country X or $$$$ to goto country Y. I don't think having a trusted reviewer-only rating would be that great in the end.

all good points
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  #1980  
Old 08-06-2017, 03:18 PM
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HarkeyPuck HarkeyPuck is offline
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I remember when Moraine AND Deer Lakes were in the top 10. Now just the top 20. With somewhere near 6000 courses, that's still in the top 0.333% still pretty good for free courses.

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