#61  
Old 11-18-2017, 09:55 PM
slowplastic slowplastic is online now
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I think reach back with a wider upper arm angle, it'll feel like 110+ degrees at the shoulder. Make sure the disc is out there to the side, try to copy Nate Doss for example with the reachback, to give you an easy to spot example of someone with an effective wide reachback. This should help you get the elbow forward with the disc swinging in to your chest a bit easier.

Your rear foot spins in place when you push forward, you aren't driving the knee forward off the instep. Your leg just stays in place, so there isn't any weight transfer. It is just rotating to a toe-down/heel-up position.

I also think your front knee is too far back. In your reachback your right knee is behind your front hip vertically, and your leg seems to rotate to get the knee ahead of the hip in order to balance on the plant leg. You should be able to shift closed into the plant leg, and to do this the foot needs to be a bit head of the knee, which has to be a bit ahead of the hip.
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  #62  
Old 11-19-2017, 12:24 AM
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sidewinder22 sidewinder22 is offline
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Agree ^. You are pushing your rear side up over the front side, instead of swiveling the rear side underneath upright onto the front side.

You are also hugging yourself with the wrong arm and angling the disc nose up. Your stance is crossing the Door Frame/rounding. Your upper arm is not wide enough/elbow forward with closed front shoulder. Your elbow doesn't get forward until your shoulders are open which yanks or grip locks your power to the right instead of straight to target.





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Old 11-19-2017, 01:12 AM
ngeunit1 ngeunit1 is offline
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Thanks for the feedback, that is a lot to process and I am trying to work through it.

I have one question that might help tie a couple of the points together. Once you are fully reachedback and going into the move, it is more of:

1) a smooth pull through from max reachback. aka the disc gets pulled from max reachback through the swing.

2) a initial force on the disc to start dragging it forward as the elbow starts to bend and the shoulders rotate, and then a second hit like the cracking a whip as the elbow is opened up and the disc wants to keep going forward but the hand can't anymore as it is being pulled back towards the body.

I feel like I am stuck more in the (1). Where mentally I am trying to insert some lag from when the weight transfer happens to when the pull starts (from max reachback). That is at least how it felt in images 1&3 from my videos in SW22's post, and it was intentional. My thinking was store up all that potential energy and then launch the disc kind of like a rubber band.

However, is it in fact more like (2). The lag that is mentioned is not a lag in weight shift versus forward movement of the disc. The disc starts to move forward with the weight shift and then there is a lag from here until the hit where the whip gets snapped.

Does that make any sense? The throw is more like a whip then a rubber band launch?
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Old 11-19-2017, 01:38 AM
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sidewinder22 sidewinder22 is offline
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Not making sense. It's more like a trebuchet. Your weight moving forward will initiate the disc moving forward, but it's moving with the shoulder and through it slow and smooth like an Olympic Hammer throw one-handed pulled taut. In Door Frame you should feel the door frame tugging your shoulder back as your weight moves forward - a disc doesn't weight anywhere as much as the door frame so it starts forward, but you should feel the disc's weight/inertia that was tossed into the backswing tugging back through the shoulder the same way.
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Old 11-19-2017, 01:52 AM
ngeunit1 ngeunit1 is offline
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When does the change from "slow and smooth" to fast occur? At the end of the day arm speed is related to launch speed so that needs to come from somewhere. Is this around the time when the disc reaches the front pec and the hand should be on the other side of the disc form the body?
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Old 11-19-2017, 01:59 AM
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More important to accelerate the disc moving faster than your arm - Smash Factor/Snap 2009. Arm might feel ridiculously slow swinging and launching all that heavy momentum. Follow through after the hit is where the arm really speeds up because all that heavy momentum has been released/tossed to target and transferred to disc.
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  #67  
Old 11-19-2017, 02:19 AM
slowplastic slowplastic is online now
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I used to focus on the disc in the reachback and the transition to moving forward. I felt that momentary pause with it at reachback, and it start to come forward with that elastic band arm type of thing. It is too slack of an arm and gets you disconnected from your torso. Instead I now am focusing on my upper arm and elbow. The torso and upper arm move pretty much together, and when you start turning forward after landing on the plant leg, the forearm will swing in and so will the disc, getting you to that elbow forward disc at chest position. I focus on the tension and firm feel in the upper arm and let that guide the disc. You'll feel the disc have momentum and know when to swing the arm from that point, but for me if I focused just on the disc I lost the whole arm as a unit.

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Old 11-19-2017, 10:04 PM
RFrance RFrance is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slowplastic View Post
I used to focus on the disc in the reachback and the transition to moving forward. I felt that momentary pause with it at reachback, and it start to come forward with that elastic band arm type of thing. It is too slack of an arm and gets you disconnected from your torso.
This is where I have been lately. I've worked up to this point and it has been giving me my best distance and accuracy so far, but still doesn't give the whip feeling.

Quote:
Originally Posted by slowplastic View Post
Instead I now am focusing on my upper arm and elbow. The torso and upper arm move pretty much together, and when you start turning forward after landing on the plant leg, the forearm will swing in and so will the disc, getting you to that elbow forward disc at chest position. I focus on the tension and firm feel in the upper arm and let that guide the disc. You'll feel the disc have momentum and know when to swing the arm from that point, but for me if I focused just on the disc I lost the whole arm as a unit.
After reading this I did a few "disc-less" practices on the patio before going out for a round and I could feel the whip connection. Out on the course it felt good. I couldn't tell for sure how much improvement because it was pretty windy today. It's amazing how just concentrating on a different part can make a difference.

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Old 11-24-2017, 04:45 PM
ngeunit1 ngeunit1 is offline
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Hi all, another day of field work.

I was trying to focus on leading with the hips, and driving the knee forward and down from behind into the plant in a closed position. I was also trying to focus on keeping the disc lower and the back arm problems, but it was overwhelming to focus on too many things at the same time so preference went to the legwork.

That being said, I think I am marginally happier with the foot work. I think I was getting better forward movement of the rear knee prior to release, and it felt less like my rear leg was not anchoring my body through the throw. Still did not look great though.

The number one thing I notice and can't seem to figure out how to fix is I am having trouble getting initial forward momentum on the disc after max reachback. I was actively trying to keep my should/upper arm unit more together during the move (and in turn bringing the disc forward with good tension). However, as seen in the video, what happens is the disc stays still and the arm over extends and pulls the shoulder back as the lower body moves forward. This in turn seems to lead to not great balance and power and the disc getting up to the pocket late. It almost looks like someone is invisibly holding onto the disc and yanking me back, which is so clearly wrong.

Some of this feels better in practicing the motion without a disc or in slow motion, but when I go to throw I revert to this same behavior. Getting over this problem seems like the key to starting to make forward progress.

Possibilities to try out?

1. Cut down on the length of the back swing. Keep the disc lower and slower moving.

2. Less shoulder and waist rotation backward during the back swing.

Videos:



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  #70  
Old 11-24-2017, 10:09 PM
ngeunit1 ngeunit1 is offline
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Thinking about some of the comments about concentrating on the elbow are starting to resonate. Working on some disc-less practice, I feel like I was trying to pull the door frame with my hand instead of using my whole arm/shoulder. Focusing on feeling the tension at the elbow is keeping the tension there seems to feel more stable and less off that disc dragging behind thing. Also, helps keep the elbow out at the pec.
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