#1821  
Old 07-27-2012, 01:09 PM
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Originally Posted by BennettUA View Post
I bought an extra Worlds disc for all players on my cards to sign. I kept the Super Stingray with the Worlds stamp too, for a wall hangar.
I sold the rest of my player's pack, and with my payout for tying 111th in ADV, I think I got all my money back. That's right, 111th, and a couple discs sold, and I'm sitting even So no complaints on the payout from here

Probably a bit on top really, with all the other goodies we got as players(t-shirts, towels, first aid kit, etc), and the experience would've been worth it WITHOUT the player's pack.

Worth every penny to hear some of the "pros" bitch and moan because this isn't wide open, "crush then putt, repeat" disc golf. Kudos to the REAL pros who know how to throw control shots in the woods -- I don't even know who you are if you think this sport shouldn't be in the woods -- DON'T COME TO THE CAROLINAS! I have the arm for distance but would be TERRIBLY bored if it were just crush after crush, then putt and repeat.

I much prefer to see the pros that were on the Final 9 knowing that their game was complete, instead of one-sided(and single-minded).

Honestly, I really don't know what disc golf is like WITHOUT wooded holes, and I DON'T WANT TO. Keep your wide open plains -- I'll be threading through the Southern pines and loving EVERYTHING about this sport, not just throwing far! HOME RUNS ARE FASCIST!

dont forget the crackers bro!
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  #1822  
Old 07-28-2012, 08:17 AM
Rip Van Rip Van is offline
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You might argue that a different path would have led to an even better result, but it's hard to see how anything has "killed" the pro division.
Okay, perhaps "killed" is a bit strong. But it is just guys and a few gals playing for each other's money. The canary in the coal mine was when the USDGC switched to prize money every other year -- too expensive, and it didn't make business sense.

I'm fascinated by the ecosystem that's evolved, and how it's essentially all driven by Ams and the difference between the retail and wholesale price of plastic. TDs can make (a small amount of) money running tournaments, but only on the Ams, so virtually every event includes Am divisions.

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Originally Posted by DavidSauls View Post
Nor has the amount of outside dollars added to Pro purses shrunk in that time. It's always been negligible.
Had the whole Am/wholesale/retail thing not taken hold, there would be a lot less tournaments, but more money for pros to chase, because if you wanted to compete the only choice would be to play for cash.
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  #1823  
Old 07-28-2012, 08:48 AM
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I wish the financial model had evolved differently, but I'm not sure how much difference it would make to Pros if we didn't have the Am divisons. They'd still be playing for each other's money. Potentially more players in the Pro division would be a bigger prize pool, but spread among more winners. If entries were as high as they are now, the "donators" who rarely cash, might rarely play, defeating the purpose.

There's no real reason Pros, or anyone, should earn money playing disc golf, other than each others' money. There's no inherent value to being a good disc golfer. There's very little entertainment value---small numbers of people will watch for free, very small numbers will pay to watch. Their value for marketing products is very small as well. It seems the only sources for added money are (1) TDs begging donations from local businesses or (2) getting money from Ams, one way or another, to give to the Pros.

Don't get me wrong---I'd think it cool if players who rise to the top could make a modest living playing disc golf. But I feel that it's not the current financial model hindering that.
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  #1824  
Old 07-28-2012, 08:55 AM
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Agreed. If disc golf can maintain its growth trajectory for another decade or two, with several times as many courses as we have now, and 5 to 10 times as many players, there will be a market for companies to advertise to. At that point, the pros can make some decent cash (but will face even more competition...)
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  #1825  
Old 07-28-2012, 10:21 AM
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The amount of players isn't what is keeping sponsors away, it's the lack of spectators like David pointed out above. We'll never have enough eyes just with players to make it really worth sponsoring a disc golf tournament, other sports get sponsors because they draw large crowds in person, and generally large tv viewership as well.
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  #1826  
Old 07-28-2012, 10:39 AM
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One thought is that when we have 10 times as many tournament players, and 20 times as many casual players, there may be enough interest among them to create an audience.

Not a big ESPN, million-dollar-player sized audience, but something worth a few dollars from advertisers.
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  #1827  
Old 07-28-2012, 10:43 AM
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Maybe, but I'm not convinced that just increasing the amount of players will change the culture. Most players who are interested in tournaments want to play them and don't generally show up just to watch, and most casual players don't know or don't care about events.
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  #1828  
Old 07-28-2012, 10:55 AM
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Stan McDaniel Stan McDaniel is offline
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Originally Posted by mashnut View Post
Maybe, but I'm not convinced that just increasing the amount of players will change the culture. Most players who are interested in tournaments want to play them and don't generally show up just to watch, and most casual players don't know or don't care about events.
I gotta disagree with you based on the ball golf model. I go to PGA events to watch top golfers. I love to play golf and but would be classified a casual player. Many of my buddies and I go to PGA events when they are in town. Most of the spectators are casual golfers enamored with their favorite pros and a chance to get close and watch them. I think that with a much much larger player base that disc golf might have a chance to support some kind of a tour. Just speculation on my part. What I have noticed here in Charlotte is that with all the new courses we have that there has been a surge in new players all over town. Time will tell.
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  #1829  
Old 07-28-2012, 11:04 AM
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I really hope you're right, I just haven't seen that desire to go watch people play rather than playing a casual round somewhere else. I wonder if it has something to do with how easy and cheap/free it is to get out and play a round of disc golf. Compare that to the expense and time of playing a round of golf, or the logistics of getting a game together in any of the other spectator sports, and that might partially explain why we don't get big galleries.
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  #1830  
Old 07-28-2012, 11:15 AM
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Anecdotal for sure, but while watching the final 9 at Worlds I ran into church 2 friends who were there to watch. Very casual golfers who appear to want to get better. They had both paid MJ recently for a private lesson. 30-something professionals. I also ran into a friend in the airport on the flight down - total golfer type, high finance professional, $1M home etc. He asked if I was going to CLT for golf (I was dressed that way I guess) and when I said DG he knew all about the event from the newspaper coverage. "Pretty cool", I thought to myself.
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