#101  
Old 12-15-2018, 12:50 PM
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2naphish 2naphish is offline
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Originally Posted by cox3 View Post
1. Ken Climo (12x world champion, 5x usdgc champion, 11x player of the year, peak rating: 1044)
2. Paul McBeth (4x world champion, 2x usdgc champion, 3x player of the year, peak rating: 1056)
3. Barry Schultz (2x world champion, 3x usdgc champion, 5x player of the year, peak rating: 1039)
4. Ricky Wysocki (2x world champion, 3x player of the year, peak rating: 1051)
5. Nate Doss (3x world champion, 1x usdgc champion, peak rating: 1046)
6. David Feldberg (1x world champion, 1x usdgc champion, 2x player of the year, peak rating: 1046)
7. Nikko Locastro (1x usdgc champion, 3x player of the year, peak rating: 1046)
8. Will Schusterick (3x usdgc champion, peak rating: 1046)
9. Steve Wisecup (1x world champion, 2x player of the year)
10. David Greenwell (3x player of the year)
i was wondering if anyone here would mention Steve Wisecup. he was the course pro at Eastwood Park DGC when i first discovered DG. he was and is an incredible disc sports player and easily deserves a spot on the top 10 list in golf and higher on the top 10 list of GOAT disc sports list.
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  #102  
Old 12-15-2018, 01:09 PM
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DavidSauls DavidSauls is offline
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Originally Posted by cox3 View Post
1. Ken Climo (12x world champion, 5x usdgc champion, 11x player of the year, peak rating: 1044)
2. Paul McBeth (4x world champion, 2x usdgc champion, 3x player of the year, peak rating: 1056)
3. Barry Schultz (2x world champion, 3x usdgc champion, 5x player of the year, peak rating: 1039)
4. Ricky Wysocki (2x world champion, 3x player of the year, peak rating: 1051)
5. Nate Doss (3x world champion, 1x usdgc champion, peak rating: 1046)
6. David Feldberg (1x world champion, 1x usdgc champion, 2x player of the year, peak rating: 1046)
7. Nikko Locastro (1x usdgc champion, 3x player of the year, peak rating: 1046)
8. Will Schusterick (3x usdgc champion, peak rating: 1046)
9. Steve Wisecup (1x world champion, 2x player of the year)
10. David Greenwell (3x player of the year)
Thanks for attaching some credentials.
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  #103  
Old 12-15-2018, 02:14 PM
Finny Finny is offline
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Originally Posted by JC17393 View Post
That's kind of the argument I was trying to make. Just because there weren't as many high quality players doesn't mean the competition was weaker. It just wasn't as deep. Stokely and Russell and Randolph and Lissaman and Brooks and Moser and Mela and Hammock and Schultz (to name a few who were top 2-3 finishers behind Climo in the 90s) were all very very very good players. I bet all of them have victories over Ken on their resume. They just couldn't muster it at Worlds, until Russell finally did.
This is interesting. I'd like to see how many 1000+ rated players competed at each of the Worlds Climo and McBeth won. I'd also like to see how much higher Climo's and McBeth's average round ratings were during each win compared to the top 10.
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  #104  
Old 12-15-2018, 03:01 PM
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DiscNinja33 DiscNinja33 is offline
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Originally Posted by cox3 View Post
I don't care if those are the only 3 tournaments he ever won, he won arguably the biggest tournament in the world 3 different times. Other than the 7 players ahead of him on my list, only Paul Ulibarri has more career earnings. The only real knock against him is that his longevity at the top was short lived. He got there very quickly and dropped off relatively fast. But there aren't many players in disc golf history that you can even say were arguably the best player in the world at any point in their life. It's hard to even come up with 10. There are only maybe 15 guys that you could even remotely make that argument.


That’s cool that he won 3 USDGCs, but we’re talking about “greatest of all time”. In my opinion, winning what he did puts him in the conversation, but then almost completely falling off the map gets him removed. Even before Ricky won, he was consistently finishing well. After winning, he still consistently finishes well.

So many players have won a few big tournaments and are FAR more consistent over their career.

Will isn’t in the top 10, no doubt. Probably not even the top 20.

He was a flash of greatness, that unfortunately faded out way too early to be in the discussion.
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  #105  
Old 12-15-2018, 09:46 PM
ryanwilli7 ryanwilli7 is offline
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Climo
McBeth
Schultz
Korver
Wysocki

Doss
Russell
Feldberg
Wisecup
MJ
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  #106  
Old 12-19-2018, 02:52 PM
IHearChains IHearChains is offline
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Originally Posted by DiscNinja33 View Post
That’s cool that he won 3 USDGCs, but we’re talking about “greatest of all time”. In my opinion, winning what he did puts him in the conversation, but then almost completely falling off the map gets him removed. Even before Ricky won, he was consistently finishing well. After winning, he still consistently finishes well.

So many players have won a few big tournaments and are FAR more consistent over their career.

Will isn’t in the top 10, no doubt. Probably not even the top 20.

He was a flash of greatness, that unfortunately faded out way too early to be in the discussion.
Ridiculous. It's not just USDGC. He's also won NTs at Memorial and Beaver State Fling, plus runner up at Worlds and lots of other runner-ups and top-card finishes in all kinds of PDGA Majors, worldwide. Even though he's dropped over the last 3 years, he had a very solid 7-year run at the very top of the game from 2009-15. That is the same length of time that Wysocki has been playing open, i.e. not a "flash". When you add the 3x USDGCs, that's a great body of work, and there's not 20 people with a better career record.

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  #107  
Old 12-19-2018, 02:59 PM
IHearChains IHearChains is offline
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Originally Posted by IHearChains View Post
[Shusterick] had a very solid 7-year run at the very top of the game from 2009-15. That is the same length of time that Wysocki has been playing open, i.e. not a "flash". When you add the 3x USDGCs, that's a great body of work, and there's not 20 people with a better career record.
Also about the same length of time Ron Russell was competitive at the top.
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  #108  
Old 12-20-2018, 06:02 PM
araytx araytx is offline
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Originally Posted by DavidSauls View Post
When judging of all time, don't you have to judge players in their time?

It's the same debate in baseball and other sports, and probably in rating presidents and much else. Climo was a bigger fish in a smaller pond. Courses were generally shorter, discs much different, styles different (few players threw FH & BH), players couldn't live off playing full time, and so on. If you debit him for the different time he played in, should you also speculate on how different he might have been if he'd come along now, and credit him for that?

Or maybe you don't. The thread is an open-ended question, and no one's criteria is necessarily right.
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Originally Posted by JC17393 View Post
More than four.

While it's true that Climo didn't have the quantity of high quality competitors that McBeth has had to beat, he still had plenty of competition. Competition good enough to beat him on occasion, yet he still pulled off nine Worlds wins in a row and 11 in 13 years. That's dominance whether there were 10 1000-rated players or 50 in the field. McBeth has been dominant at Worlds for seven years (4 wins and 3 seconds). I think he needs a couple more titles and a few more years near the top to eclipse Climo.

To me, it's a kin to Tiger Woods vs Jack Nicklaus. Tiger had deeper fields to beat, but no one could argue he was near Jack let alone better after just five or six majors (Jack has 18). Now at 14 majors, there's a reasonable case to be made.
First, it is only speculation and good fodder for talk; comparing across eras -- in any sport -- is scientifically fruitless. The playing conditions are not the same. It's like those people who b**ch about and cut down Alabama because of their schedule. Just because they didn't play the same schedule as Ohio St or Notre Dame doesn't mean Bama is any less good.

One argument I like to make when talking about this is Climo's greatness extended into his 30's and 40's. McBeth, et al., aren't there yet. Give them the chance before we say "definitively better than." Champ was 42-years-old when he shot the then record 1117-rated round. Forty-two!!! It wasn't during that magical run of the 90's but just 9 years ago. On a 24-hole course, he pars the first hole. Then goes 23 in a row. The people who actually saw it said Champ wasn't just parking everything; he was making putts from just about everywhere. 40-, 50-, and 60-footers over and over again.

I say all that because Paul and/or anyone else is gonna have to shoot an 1100-round in their 40's before I say they're better than Climo. And they aren't there yet.

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  #109  
Old 12-21-2018, 11:15 AM
mball1684 mball1684 is offline
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My top 5/10 Men:

1. Paul Mcbeth
2. Ken Climo
3. Ricky Wysocki
4. Nate Doss
5. Dave Feldberg

6. Barry Shultz
7. Nate Sexton
8. Will Suchustrick
9. Eric McCabe
10. Paul Ullibarri


Top 5 Women:

1. Sarah Hokum
2. Val Jenkins-Doss
3. Paige Pierce
4. Elaine King
5. Catrina Allen
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  #110  
Old 12-21-2018, 11:29 AM
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2naphish 2naphish is offline
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Originally Posted by araytx View Post
First, it is only speculation and good fodder for talk; comparing across eras -- in any sport -- is scientifically fruitless. The playing conditions are not the same. It's like those people who b**ch about and cut down Alabama because of their schedule. Just because they didn't play the same schedule as Ohio St or Notre Dame doesn't mean Bama is any less good.

I say all that because Paul and/or anyone else is gonna have to shoot an 1100-round in their 40's before I say they're better than Climo. And they aren't there yet.
i like the Alabama/Mcbeth/Climo analogy. Anyone can be beaten , but true Champions stand the test of time. Roll Tide.
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