#181  
Old 01-16-2019, 03:02 PM
slowplastic slowplastic is offline
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Basically what I am trying to figure out is, what am I using/moving/pushing/shifting to get my hips to come forward as momentum still carries the disc back? SW it looks like you're pushing your hips forward from your rear leg until you're dynamically balanced on your front leg. Is that correct, or am I way off base here
So think about everything mirrored forward swing and backswing. In the forward swing we are comfortable thinking about the butt being the counterweight/leverage for the arm, like in a trebuchet. So the butt actually clears back after the plant, going kind of away from the target and that will release the arm targetward.

So in the backswing the butt turns closer to the target to leverage the right arm backward for the backswing. This enables the butt to move closer to the target, being leveraged on the left leg. Maybe instead of thinking that the butt is going targetward as the disc goes back...think that the arm is going back BECAUSE the butt is turning and moving targetward. Just like in the forward swing the arm is released because of how the butt is cleared back.

In a standstill shot you will have all of your weight essentially on the rear leg in the backswing, and when you are loaded back your butt will be closer to the target, then you will land on the plant leg. It makes sense...but is hard to do right.

In the one leg drill even though you don't weight the rear leg consciously, I'm sure it's supporting 10-20% of body weight with how it comes down on the ground. I have not tried the one leg drill with my rear foot dangling off a step or something to see how that lateral move happens and if it is the same with zero rear leg weight, but in one leg drill I'm not actually thinking about using the back leg at all.

I'm not sure which of SW's videos it is in, but I would suggest the "open closed" throw to get a feel for this. Where you set up with your rear foot how it should be angled back somewhat, and the right leg just to the right of it so your chest is facing the target, right toes facing target. You step "around" the rear leg from this open position into the backswing, then move targetward in the appropriate diagonal way to land closed. This makes sure your entire backswing occurs balanced on the rear leg, and this turning movement may help you feel your butt turn to the target and move laterally closer.
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  #182  
Old 01-16-2019, 07:26 PM
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sidewinder22 sidewinder22 is offline
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Fellas,

Having a hard time with this move right here.



I've watched the videos by SC/SW, but I'm struggling to apply the information in OLD. Perhaps it would help if someone could breakdown the sequence once the disc crosses over my lead foot in the backswing? This is probably not the right way to ask this question, but here it goes...

Basically what I am trying to figure out is, what am I using/moving/pushing/shifting to get my hips to come forward as momentum still carries the disc back? SW it looks like you're pushing your hips forward from your rear leg until you're dynamically balanced on your front leg. Is that correct, or am I way off base here
When you watch it slowed down the backward and forward hip move looks a lot more exaggerated than it feels. It feels like a very centered pivot on the front leg, remaining forward leveraged from the rear leg as the backswing momentum is pulling away from the target. I'd say it's more like rebound back forward from stopping the backward momentum, rather than a push or drive forward.

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  #183  
Old 01-17-2019, 01:34 AM
RandyC RandyC is offline
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Originally Posted by Jet57 View Post
Fellas,

Having a hard time with this move right here.



I've watched the videos by SC/SW, but I'm struggling to apply the information in OLD. Perhaps it would help if someone could breakdown the sequence once the disc crosses over my lead foot in the backswing? This is probably not the right way to ask this question, but here it goes...

Basically what I am trying to figure out is, what am I using/moving/pushing/shifting to get my hips to come forward as momentum still carries the disc back? SW it looks like you're pushing your hips forward from your rear leg until you're dynamically balanced on your front leg. Is that correct, or am I way off base here
Turning your rear shoulder moves your butt targetwards and also gets your disc back. In reality shoulders do not move a lot it΄s your hips that turn the whole package, but for many its easier to think that the shoulder is turning. When doing this you should also feel way more relaxed than before because you do not require any stiff right arm action to move the disc, it can stay very relaxed and just guide the disc.

I΄ve recently become quite frustrated with all the golf terms such as "move from behind or hogan power move". Not that they are wrong, they are absolutely fantastic moves for generating power but I don΄t like that naming them this way kinda separates them from all other sports as if they are exclusive only for golf or disc golf. It has been very confusing atleast for me. Buttwipe when you punch, hogan power move when you throw, load your hips when you take a baseball swing they are the same thing. Sure there are very subtle differences but not so that you should reinvent the whole thing.


Federer: https://youtu.be/jVCfIrtOhhM?t=44
Bubba: https://youtu.be/Qrk4zW757IM?t=9
Kane: https://youtu.be/RJnKTtS9t3g?t=10
Altuve: https://youtu.be/BmZnUEsFnbw?t=6
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  #184  
Old 01-17-2019, 01:47 PM
Jet57 Jet57 is offline
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Once again fellas, I appreciate all the feedback/advice/tips. I'm going to get this...eventually. I've been bouncing back and forth between OLD and my one step, and with each day, it feels like I'm getting incrementally better with getting on to my lead leg.

Still lots wrong with this clip, head down, left arm away from body...and that damn right shoulder still shrugging up slightly. Additionally, while I don't start static, I don't have a pre-swing to speak of. Feel free to comment on other areas or expand on what I see. I find it particularly helpful when people are able to describe the feeling during different parts of the sequence.



Lastly, as I continue to fumble through OLD, I've been re-reading SP's and BJ's form threads. RC you mentioned in SP's thread (and I'm paraphrasing), that when things started to click for you, it felt as though you were throwing behind your back. I'm curious if you could expand on that comment and/or make a short clip of what you mean?

Yeah, it's not the disc/ball golf terminology that irks me - its that I have a pretty darn good slap shot (righty), I also teach dance (boys hip hop). So the fact that some of these concepts continue to elude me is maddening...and borderline embarrassing.
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  #185  
Old 01-17-2019, 05:09 PM
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sidewinder22 sidewinder22 is offline
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Address the target setup on the front leg like I show in link below. You are moving away from your front leg in your pre-swing. Your front knee shouldn't kick inward(weight shift off) until the arm/disc starts to pass it. I also do some reverse hockey grip swings in the beginning, with two-handed grip dominate hand should always be on the bottom to leverage the club or stick:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7IFO7J3AV5Y&t=5m



At the top of the backswing it looks like you are flexing/tensing up your arm and trying to bend your elbow and pulling the elbow/disc inward, instead of the elbow bending/hinging from lag and the disc will swing or lag inward. Your weight shift is not really leading everything forward while lagging the arm/disc behind like dragging the door frame through the shoulder, which you can clearly see in the Slow Motion Drill, as well as the front knee kicking inward with the arm/disc swinging past it. I think Slow Motion and Perpetually Longer Drills will do you good, and keeping the arm straighter.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nu4CzVnITlo

Never in a million years would I have guessed you taught dance based on your throw. Your throw looks very mechanical instead of rhythmic and fluid. These should help with that as well:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1qav60rRSY#t=2m20s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Awpyw2k3QM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GxnhM5amro0&t=3m7s



Note how Feldy and Jesper bring the shoulder forward more linearly over the knee - rather around rotationally. Your shoulder never passes your hip linearly and immediately starts going around.


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  #186  
Old 01-17-2019, 07:02 PM
slowplastic slowplastic is offline
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You're heading in the right direction, and I think these little corrections along the way will keep getting you there. It's silly how hard it is to just make it work on its own until you've felt some of these things.

I agree with setting up more on the front leg to address through the hit. You are kind of turned back before you even start the backswing. Then as you land on the rear foot to initiate the backswing, I think you have too much hip turn and then lag to the arm, rather then feeling more connected leverage on the left leg through your torso and through the arm as an almost dead weight. Basically a little more "together" feeling with the turn back, but I like how you are doing some momentum rocking forward and back.

I think some of the pre-turn back is why your right knee is buckling inward/backward. If you just rock back and forth between the feet in the pendulum you'll feel when either heel wants to lift naturally...this is how the front foot's heel should lift in the backswing too.
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  #187  
Old 01-18-2019, 11:50 AM
Jet57 Jet57 is offline
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Thanks fella's once again!

Yeah, the dance stuff is funny...I just kind of fell into it 6-7 years ago. I suppose it works because I have an odd/unique combination of skills: Working with kids/Dancing/Coaching. I guess what I am trying to say is I'm not a supremely talented dancer, I just have a wide variety of skills that translate to teaching a hip hop class.

Quite interesting though the way all of this kind of ties together; I definitely have what you would call a staccato (tango) style of dance, rather than a more salsa style. This can clearly be seen in one of my classes last week...



But I digress...

I see what both SW/SP are saying about addressing the target and ultimately the back swing. Sounds like in an effort to get my arm going back with my butt/torso, I over did it, and throws everything out of whack.

I'll go over my latest notes, and work to applying them in practice.
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  #188  
Old 01-18-2019, 02:12 PM
slowplastic slowplastic is offline
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I tried copying what you're doing and I'll try to describe the feel difference between your backswing and how it's feeling for me.

-when you put weight onto the rear foot, your hips start turning back immediately.
-by the time the disc is crossing your spine/mass, your hips are already turned back like 60-70 degrees
-essentially it feels like you turn your hips as you weight your rear leg, and the rotated back hips are slinging the disc down and then behind you to the backswing in a delayed way...this delay is not connection, it feels more like a loose arm whip
-at this point your hips are already at maximum turn/load and there is no change in your pelvis for the remainder of the backswing or until after you weight the front leg for the forward swing

So how it is feeling for me:
-weight the rear leg at the top of the forward pump/shot address
-use the body weight on rear leg with neutral hip alignment...it will look closed because of diagonal setup...to pump the disc down and to the bottom of the swing by spine
-as disc crosses left leg my butt/pelvis starts to turn closed and move targetward...this is counterweighting the arm moving farther away from target
-my balance and butt feels leveraged on/against my left hip and it slides targetward and I begin to plant on the right leg
-my arm/disc is still floating up at this point, and I just let it do what it wants without trying to control it
-the weight planting on the right leg begins the forward/targetward movement
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  #189  
Old 01-22-2019, 05:03 PM
Jet57 Jet57 is offline
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So how it is feeling for me:
-weight the rear leg at the top of the forward pump/shot address
-use the body weight on rear leg with neutral hip alignment...it will look closed because of diagonal setup...to pump the disc down and to the bottom of the swing by spine
-as disc crosses left leg my butt/pelvis starts to turn closed and move targetward...this is counterweighting the arm moving farther away from target
-my balance and butt feels leveraged on/against my left hip and it slides targetward and I begin to plant on the right leg
-my arm/disc is still floating up at this point, and I just let it do what it wants without trying to control it
-the weight planting on the right leg begins the forward/targetward movement
Afternoon,

Stepped away for a few days, hoping to simply let some of the mental practice sink in a bit more. SP I have a question about how things feel for you in the backswing. In a standstill/one step throw, are you saying that my rear leg should be weighted as I address the target? Pretty sure I have always had my lead leg weighted as I address the target, and then it rocks back to my rear leg as I start the backswing.

Standing in my office, it feels a lot different to already have all of the weight on my rear leg as I initiate my backswing. Given that I still struggle with some of these concepts, I'd say having a "different" feeling is a good thing.
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  #190  
Old 01-22-2019, 08:00 PM
slowplastic slowplastic is offline
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Afternoon,

Stepped away for a few days, hoping to simply let some of the mental practice sink in a bit more. SP I have a question about how things feel for you in the backswing. In a standstill/one step throw, are you saying that my rear leg should be weighted as I address the target? Pretty sure I have always had my lead leg weighted as I address the target, and then it rocks back to my rear leg as I start the backswing.

Standing in my office, it feels a lot different to already have all of the weight on my rear leg as I initiate my backswing. Given that I still struggle with some of these concepts, I'd say having a "different" feeling is a good thing.
To address the target yo will be completely on the front leg, the rear heel will have lifted off the ground and the toes will just be in contact for balance.

You then rock back to the rear leg TO start the backswing. If you are doing a pendulum back and forth, then you will start to rock your weight back to the rear foot as the arm is still swinging forward/up slightly. As you have more weight on the rear leg you will be able to really control the swing and leverage back.
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