#21  
Old 02-18-2019, 01:56 PM
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thrembo thrembo is online now
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Phantom. Eclipse. Cyclone/x-clone. Buzzz. Challenger. Sidewinder. Meteor. Glide.
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  #22  
Old 02-18-2019, 02:10 PM
biscoe biscoe is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Three Putt View Post
The ubiquitous golf disc of the 90's was the Viper. The Cyclone was a different type of driver and had a big following, but I sold golf discs in the 90's and the Viper was THE driver for a long time.

I'll also parrot another thing biscoe said in that the small-diameter thing wasn't a one-disc revolution. The Cyclone was kinda/sorta a small diameter driver and a step in that direction. but the Whippet, B-25, Gazelle and Cheetah were around. They all sold well but none of them set the World on fire. The Polaris LS and XL both sold like hotcakes, but they took sales away from the Cyclone, B-25, Gazelle and Cheetah. The guys flexing Vipers were still flexing Vipers. Eventually by that summer of '99 when you had Eagles and TeeBirds and Leopards out the sales of the small diameter discs were dwarfing the Viper, but it wasn't just one of them killing off the large-diameter driver. It was this five or six year slow-motion conversion that took place. I mean in '95 when Millennium Discs started the Tachyon (Viper copy) was seen as necessary enough that it was their first driver. By '99 they didn't make them anymore. It just slowly happened that people started throwing the faster, small-diameter drivers.

I had kids and sorta settled into a "throw my old Cyclones for Rec rounds" thing and ignored all the new hotness for a few year. When I plugged back in I was surprised that the TeeBird had become the King of the drivers. I didn't see that coming. In '00 when I stopped selling golf discs, it was just one of several good driver options.
It was all so regional back then. I sold a bunch (thousands) of discs for about the same period of time you did and I bet i didn't sell 50 vipers between 96 and 2000. The millenium stuff other than the Omega SS didn't catch on around here all that quickly either (although I myself loved the polaris LS). Sold a ton of cyclones and later XL's- not really a lot of any other discraft disc back then (again- although I myself loved the xclone).
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  #23  
Old 02-18-2019, 02:34 PM
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Three Putt Three Putt is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by biscoe View Post
It was all so regional back then. I sold a bunch (thousands) of discs for about the same period of time you did and I bet i didn't sell 50 vipers between 96 and 2000. The millenium stuff other than the Omega SS didn't catch on around here all that quickly either (although I myself loved the polaris LS). Sold a ton of cyclones and later XL's- not really a lot of any other discraft disc back then (again- although I myself loved the xclone).
Regional was a huge part of it. One guy could have a huge influence over a region. One thing I really remember were these Alabama guys I knew, and for them if Dean Tannock said something it was so. Those guys had a huge amount of respect for that guy. He threw Innova so they threw Innova. Simple as that. I don't think they would have bought a Discraft disc under any circumstances.

In St. Louis we had Dave McCormack. Dave threw Aviars and Rocs, but he used to tell people to throw Magnets and Comets. He talked a lot, would talk to anybody, wasn't shy about telling you what he thought you ought to be throwing...a lot of people came to me looking for something Dave told them about. Because he wasn't a big Innova guy, it opened our market up quite a bit IMO. Steve Howle was always surprised by how much Lightning I could move, but I didn't have as much of the Lightning bad-mouthing going on in my market as an Innova stronghold would have. I sold a lot of Discraft, Lightning and Millennium. That's also why it was such a good initial market for the Sabre; the St. Louis players were pretty open to throwing it.

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  #24  
Old 02-18-2019, 02:43 PM
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Three Putt Three Putt is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by biscoe View Post
I sold a bunch (thousands) of discs for about the same period of time you did and I bet i didn't sell 50 vipers between 96 and 2000.
I did a bunch of stuff to discourage rec players from buying Vipers because I sold discs at a pitch and putt that had maybe one hole you could kinda/sorta justify throwing a Viper on. I started by putting warnings on them in the display about how they were for "expert players only" or some such thing. I ended up taking them out of the display to try to hide the fact that we even had any. Even with discouraging people from buying them it was always in my top sellers. It had finally started to tail off right at the end, but that was '99-'00. I wouldn't even want to guess how many we sold from '96-'00. Less than 1,000 but more than 500, someplace in that general area.

Last edited by Three Putt; 02-18-2019 at 02:46 PM.
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  #25  
Old 02-18-2019, 03:28 PM
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Three Putt Three Putt is offline
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Something that happened along with the move to the small-diameter driver was the flick shot. As the discs got faster, that flick shot got easier to execute. That also happened slowly. The X-Clone and Banshee were discs that were commonly used for that shot, but again it was just a shot for you to use. Somewhere along about 2002 you started to see a lot of guys one-disc flickin'. You would go out to throw and suddenly realize you were the only guy in the park throwing backhand. It wasn't just one disc, it was something that just built up until it suddenly was this common thing that you had this big % of forehand-dominant throwers. They had always existed, but the small-diameter driver seemed to drive that shot to much larger use than it had ever been before.
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  #26  
Old 02-21-2019, 08:22 AM
Claytoon42 Claytoon42 is offline
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So, essentially the Valk kicked off the rim wars. It was a race to get the rims wider, the discs faster, while stating in specs. But, what was the next real innovation? What made a big splash after that? Blizzard plastic? Overmolds?

Sidenote: When did cement tee pads become a thing? I bet that was a game changer.
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  #27  
Old 02-21-2019, 09:32 AM
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ZMan44 ZMan44 is offline
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Strangely enough, when I started playing, we all assumed that a 10 on speed was the maximum of the scale. Then some 10+ discs started being released in the mid-to-late 2000s. In my opinion, this is the time period where Innova distanced itself from Discraft. Put Climo's name on the Wraith. Avery's name on the Destroyer. Feldberg on the Boss. All 3 of those molds were extremely popular, and still are.

The overmold technology was a weird thing. MVP was completely new and most people had never heard of them at all. All of my friends and I bought first run Ions when they came out...just to check it out. These were not stamped so lots of players that enjoyed custom dyes snatched them up. I never loved mine. Ended up putting it in a closet and selling it for $100 a few years ago. Good investment. My dear friend bjreagh fell in love with his and has used it as his default putter since that time.

Blizzard plastic, and the subsequent "Star-lite" plastic was a bit of a fad. It's still around, but when it was first released it was billed as the next great thing. I never really got into it. The only Blizzard disc I found useful was a Dominator that I picked up at some tourney. It had no bubbles like every other Blizzard disc at the time. Weighed 157g. That was the first disc that I could just bomb on a long hyzer without having to flex. It was the last Innova disc to leave my bag.

As far as another game changer...the GRIP bag. There had been some attempts at a backpack by other companies, but the GRIP was the first that really gained steam. However, the initial launch was a dumpster fire. They righted the ship, however.
The shift to backpacks instead of traditional bags/quads was a big change.

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Last edited by ZMan44; 02-21-2019 at 09:34 AM.
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  #28  
Old 02-21-2019, 09:55 AM
puck'n'disc5 puck'n'disc5 is offline
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Ken Climo
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  #29  
Old 02-21-2019, 10:02 AM
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BENFTS BENFTS is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XC_Eddy View Post
When the Orc came out it ruled. A new standard for distance drivers. The old distance drivers were suddenly fairway drivers.

Then the Wraith went up a speed. Then the Destroyer another speed.
When the Orc came out it was also the debut of Star plastic.

Still love my Orcs and call on them more than any other driver in my bag.
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  #30  
Old 02-21-2019, 10:21 AM
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BrotherDave BrotherDave is offline
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The Groove changed the game by black pilling disc golfers into no longer having blind faith in the promise of big distance for noodle arms.
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