#11  
Old 07-02-2018, 09:08 AM
Jet57 Jet57 is offline
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Once again, I appreciate the feedback. Gonna keep putting in the work.
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  #12  
Old 07-05-2018, 01:36 PM
Jet57 Jet57 is offline
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Afternoon!

So I’m a little excited that I might be making some progress with my BH form. For weeks I’ve been doing suggested drills, filmiling myself...etc.

Recently I’ve been trying to emulate Will Schusterisk standstill/one step drive. Not sure exactly why, but his lean back then one step I think has helped me find some better timing.




I know I still have a TON to work on. But what I am encouraged about is this is the first time I’ve seen my lead shoulder go in front of my hip and for that shoulder to stay down.

I know I’m still crazy fast, pulling the disc too high, and still getting stuck on my back foot,.

Anyway, just wanted to share. Feel free to comment and critique. I’m just going to keep grinding and trusting the process.
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Old 07-05-2018, 08:43 PM
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And now you are going too far over top your front leg. Your stance is open, weight back and spinning out.

Note in pic below your rear femur is turned out, knee extended, and heel flat and weighted on ground. Your front foot spins open(also plants open to right tee side) as it plants and the hip opens up as well. So your feet and hips are spinning out.

Note how Will's femurs are rotated inward so knees almost face each other, his front foot has planted closed and rear foot is airborne/weightless, rear knee is flexed forward and heel up.


Note below your rear leg is extending upward and your shoulder is forward of your knee, so everything including the hips/pelvis/spine is tilted over the top.

Note how Will's front foot is closed and hips/pelvis are tilted upward to brace the forward spine tilt and shoulder behind knee. His rear shin is almost horizontal and thigh almost vertical and hanging underneath the pelvis so all rear side weight has swiveled forward and lower.









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Old 07-06-2018, 10:39 AM
Jet57 Jet57 is offline
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Thank you SS. Your videos are amazing; it's funny that you can watch them like 4-5 times and be thoroughly confused (Swivel chair), and then suddenly something clicks mentally. Going to work on putting it into practice today. Thanks!

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Old 07-13-2018, 10:29 AM
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Morning,

Attaching a link for what is probably very stupid video. This is just me in the office trying to figure out why my right shoulder begins to raise almost instantly when I begin my pull. I'm also attaching a picture of me doing some practice pull throughs.



Can someone help me identify what is causing my right shoulder to rise so badly? I can see that I am tilted back and that my shoulder is moments from opening, if not already slightly open. I can also see in the picture that my hips are already starting to open.

This might sound like a dumb question, but does my right shoulder have more to do with my lower body, with my upper body...or both? Knowing that I can only focus on one change at a time, I guess I am trying to figure out what the problem is AND which one to attack first.

As always, thank you all for your critiques.

Jeremiah
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  #16  
Old 07-13-2018, 12:00 PM
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If you want my opinion, stop trying to throw the disc with your arm. You are bringing the disc into the power pocket by moving your upper arm to shoulder angle. Try moving your upper arm with your hips and torso. Keep the angle of your upper arm to your shoulders locked at greater than 90 degrees. Let the lower arm stay relaxed and release like a whip after the disc comes into the power pocket. The quoted text below is from DGR and may prove helpful.


Two facts:

Fact 1: 300 ft is about as far as most men can throw using primarily the strength of their arm to propel the disc. For women it is closer to 230 ft.

Fact 2: The fact that you get the same distance no matter how you do your step implies that you aren't getting anything out of your legs, which drive your torso, which is the platform for your shoulders...

The sum:

Fact 1 + Fact 2 = You're strong-arming, throwing with your arm, and you're not getting much of anything from your torso and shoulders.

Your arm is of order 10X less powerful than your legs/torso. Stop throwing with your arm! Your arm is only useful for positioning and gripping, other than that, it is purely passive. Your arm needs to be turned into a whip that is driven by the powerful motion of your legs/hips/torso/shoulders.

Here's an exercise I might suggest:

Stand still with your arms at your side, completely relaxed. Turn your hips and torso back slowly and then rotate your hips quickly to the open position. Your arms should be whipped out and around in a windmill motion, without you using a single muscle in your arms. That's the feeling you should be aiming for.

Next do the same thing, except extend your throwing elbow out sideways from your body and hold it there (as if you put a vice around your shoulder). Allow your lower throwing arm and hand to hang limp from your elbow. Do it as if your arm were asleep and some mechanical device was locked onto your shoulder to keep the elbow pointed out side ways from your torso. Don't allow your elbow to move forward or backward, nor up nor down. It is completely locked in place, as if you no longer even had a shoulder joint and your upper arm were fused into your shoulder so that it would always point out sideways.

Now slowly turn your hips and torso back, and turn them abruptly open again. Don't use a single muscle in your arm! Now you should find that you've turned your arm into a whip. Your lower arm should be whipping forward super-fast. In fact, you can whip your lower arm forward way faster in this manner than your arm muscles could ever dream of doing. Your arm muscle strength decreases rapidly as speed increases, so they are useless anyways...trying to use them will only slow down this motion. You'll find that whipping your lower arm forward in this manner, with the elbow "stopped," will feel relatively effortless in comparison to trying to throw with your arm as you've probably been doing before.

Practice getting this feeling for a while. (Later you can work on the grip and positioning in finer detail, but for now focus on using your legs/hips/torso/shoulders as the powerful motor for whipping your arm forward

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Old 07-13-2018, 12:12 PM
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More from JHern on DGR that may be helpful.

I've been trying to find an image or something that would illustrate this, but no luck. Here is a fictional story to illustrate what I had in mind: Imagine somebody badly broke their shoulder joint somehow, on their throwing arm. To heal it properly, the doctor decided to immobilize the shoulder by making a plaster cast which keeps the elbow held out to the side. The plaster cast covers the entire chest and shoulders front and back (kind of like the shoulder pad rig worn by football players, but plaster), and the cast also extends down the upper arm all the way to the elbow. The person is then forced to walk around with their elbow pointed out sideways. They can't move their elbow up, down, forward, backwards, or anywhere at all. It is held firm by the one-piece cast that is rigidly attached to their upper torso. Their lower arm and hand hangs down from the elbow, and is free to move about the elbow joint.

OK, got that picture? Now, here is my claim: this person could throw a disc farther than 300' fairly easily. And here's why: all they have to do is swivel their hips back, and with power starting from the ground up through firmly planted legs, they rotate their hips/torso/shoulders back open quickly, and their lower arm will whip around and zoom forward very fast. Put a disc in their hand and have them release it when the arm is near full extension, and that disc will be flying very quickly. It will be moving much more quickly than they could have achieved by keeping their body fixed and trying to whip their arm forward with their triceps strength alone. This is the whip.

BUT DON'T TRY THIS CAST AT HOME! Unfortunately, this person will only get to throw the disc like this once, because they'll break their elbow joint backwards since the cast is fixed in place and the arm can't follow through. The upper arm's momentum will carry through and the biceps will be unable to arrest the motion. This would be extremely painful.

What you want to do is pretend as if you had this cast on, but that the cast suddenly disappeared just after the disc leaves your hand, and then your arm can relax and follow through so that you don't, in fact, break your elbow backwards. But just a split second before the disc rips out, you should still try to stop your arm from swinging open with all your might as if it would break if you failed to stop it. Grip and clamp down as hard as you possibly can on the disc with all your might during this moment, and feel the disc fling off your fingers with a rapid spin.
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Old 07-13-2018, 02:38 PM
Jet57 Jet57 is offline
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Quicksand: The harder you struggle, the quicker you sink. This is how I feel right now; seems the more I work at this, the more things seemingly unravel.

Thank you Nathan for the info/feedback. I took my lunch break in a vacant warehouse today and worked on just letting my letting my hips/torso throw my arm. I can absolutely see what you mean; i was not actively trying to move my arm, and it still whips around quite quickly.

https://vimeo.com/user86973349/revie...149/e531aac107

Here's my question/problem/frustration: I can see from the video that I am effectively "rounding" because I have not guided the disc into the power pocket. I guess that is my disconnect, in that I am having trouble timing the slow arm acceleration with the violent explosion of the hips/torso.
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Old 07-13-2018, 02:55 PM
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In the video a few posts ago, you aren't getting off your rear foot before swinging, you are still weight back and that is why your shoulder rises on the plant leg. Need to shift all weight onto plant then swing with shoulder turned back.

In second video you are turning your front foot/side open before you plant it. You aren't shifting "from behind you" like in Best Downswing Weightshift.

You might notice striking similarity to what Nathan just posted by Jhern and my Stop Hugging Yourself/Rounding - One Arm Olympic Hammer throw video.

Try doing what I do in slow motion and perpetually longer swing drill. Watch how my weight shifts laterally back and forth before swinging in either direction.
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  #20  
Old 07-13-2018, 03:12 PM
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Yeah it's a couple reasons. As stated you were using your arm to swing the disc, rather than having the upper arm locked much wider than 90 and using your torso to rotate your body and arm, therefore disc as well. As soon as you use your shoulder, the arm is isolated, gets left behind, and scrunches up.

Secondly as SW22 said you aren't getting off the rear side with the weight shift from behind. You have to do the Hershyzer type of thing where you lead with your body weight. If you look at the pro's they all have a forward tilt during their X-step, getting their weight to where it should be and then catching it with the foot. If you lead with the foot you end up behind the plant and kind of angled back/up. The from behind part is how to actually load deeper/later and also have your body weight counter/leverage through the throw, and it can be complicated until you feel it.

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