#21  
Old 01-20-2022, 09:23 AM
oldmandiscer oldmandiscer is offline
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Originally Posted by dreadlock86 View Post
i hate that it has to happen

of course it doesn't mean overstable either because it's not a category. stability is a continuum not a set of 3 (or more) categories.
I hate when people are now saying their understable discs are more overstable. Just say stable, not overstable. I heard it from McBeth in a recent video of his like a week ago.
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  #22  
Old 01-20-2022, 12:25 PM
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Three Putt Three Putt is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twistedraven View Post
Just want to chime in incase anybody has any thoughts about the 3 series having slightly wider rims than the '1' series they're based on. Multiple times I had little quibbles on reddit with people who thought the 3 series had slightly larger rims. One person even showed me a picture of their calibers demonstrating a Leopard3 to have a larger rim than a Leopard.

I borrowed my dad's Mitutoyo micrometer (multi-hundred dollar product, only measures up to 1 inch with .001mm resolution.). I took a couple Leopards and Leopard 3s of mine, then I took several Teebirds and Teebird3s. The verdict? The rims are between the Leopard and Teebirds are all around the same size. Super tiny differences were present as I move the measuring rods around the molds, but they all hit a general neighborhood of accuracy.


Also, even though one of the original intentions for the 3 series might have been more torque resistance, I can't really agree that it's a guarantee for all 3 discs. As an example, plenty runs of Teebird3s and TL3s I find slightly less HSS than their non 3 counterparts. It really all depends on how they mold up at that time, and of course the plastic used affects that to a great degree. I also have a domey Mako3 and a flat Mako-- go figure.
I think that comes from the approved discs list; the Leopard is listed as a 1.6cm wing and the Leopard3 is listed as a 1.7 cm wing. People jump on stuff like that which can be accounted for just by the fact that the Leopard was approved in DX and the Leopard3 was probably submitted in Champ. That could account for the wing being a millimeter off on measurement. Hell, if you bought a Champ Leopard every year and measured the wing, you would probably find a millimeter of variation was standard run from run. At any rate, I think those measurements are what make people swear the wings are bigger on the 3 discs.

The Mako is listed as a 1.2cm wing and the Mako3 is listed as a 1.4cm wing on the approved disc list, which I cannot account for. The only Mako's I owned had pop-top domes and really, really sucked so I got rid of them a long, long time ago. I can't even compare the wings to see if they look the same. If you have both and calipers, I'd like to know what you find out.

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  #23  
Old 01-20-2022, 08:37 PM
ian.w ian.w is offline
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I’m convinced that the 3 versions of teebirds and leopards are identical to the originals. They even measure identically. The PDGA site is not accurate. As far as other 3 molds, some are obviously different and new molds. But leopard(3 and og) and teebird(3 and og) nah they’re the same disc just stamped differently.

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  #24  
Old 01-20-2022, 09:36 PM
twistedraven twistedraven is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Three Putt View Post
The Mako is listed as a 1.2cm wing and the Mako3 is listed as a 1.4cm wing on the approved disc list, which I cannot account for. The only Mako's I owned had pop-top domes and really, really sucked so I got rid of them a long, long time ago. I can't even compare the wings to see if they look the same. If you have both and calipers, I'd like to know what you find out.
Unfortunately I don't have my Mako(1) anymore. I just did some measurements of an ESP Buzzz and Star Mako 3 though.


Star Mako3: 12.610mm average

12.588mm
12.638mm
12.516mm
12.607mm
12.703mm

ESP Buzzz: 13.048mm average

13.112mm
13.040mm
13.101mm
12.956mm
13.032mm
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  #25  
Old 01-20-2022, 09:46 PM
elmexdela elmexdela is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twistedraven View Post
Unfortunately I don't have my Mako(1) anymore. I just did some measurements of an ESP Buzzz and Star Mako 3 though.


Star Mako3: 12.610mm average

12.588mm
12.638mm
12.516mm
12.607mm
12.703mm

ESP Buzzz: 13.048mm average

13.112mm
13.040mm
13.101mm
12.956mm
13.032mm
as in you did this with 5 different discs for each mold

or you measured it in 5 different spots on the same disc
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  #26  
Old 01-20-2022, 10:13 PM
twistedraven twistedraven is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elmexdela View Post
as in you did this with 5 different discs for each mold

or you measured it in 5 different spots on the same disc
I measured an ESP Buzzz and a Star Mako 3, 5 measurements each taken at different positions.

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  #27  
Old 01-21-2022, 01:51 AM
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wolfhaley wolfhaley is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twistedraven View Post
I measured an ESP Buzzz and a Star Mako 3, 5 measurements each taken at different positions.
Why though?

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  #28  
Old 01-21-2022, 08:01 AM
twistedraven twistedraven is offline
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Originally Posted by wolfhaley View Post
Why though?
Just to compare the '5' speed Mako3 vs another 5 speed midrange that's fairly ubiquitous.

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  #29  
Old 01-21-2022, 09:09 AM
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runningDoc runningDoc is offline
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I've come around on the "3" discs especially on the mid range and putters. I used to kind of hate on the "3" discs because the lack of glide compared to regular non 3 mold.

i throw KC pro rancho rocs but also bag flat top KC pro rocs/Pro Roc 3 (don't hate me but i think KC pro flat top and pro roc3 are the same exact disc) and also champ roc3.

i tried throwing champ (usdgc champ rancho) rancho rocs and they were more overstable and had good glide but didn't do what I wanted when i needed a more wind resistant more overstable compliment to my KC pro rocs.

the flatter faster roc3 is easier to sidearm (for me, i do sidearm my rocs up to 220ft) and does better in lower ceiling situations and also when i need to try to force a flare skip on bendy fairways.

Similar situation with my aviars. I used to bag S-P2 (which was a aviar variant) for overstable putter upshots/drives and the glide and overstability was nice (especially off the tee) but I would get into trouble on those 200ft and in upshots because the glide and overstabilty i'd often overshoot my target or it would hyzer out too hard and skip too wide of the target.

Now I just throw my Aviar 3 harder on hyzer and don't worry because the less glide minimizes the possibility of overshooting the target and the overstability (harder fade end of flight) minimizes the skip fade too. My upshot game has been my strongest its ever been since finding the Aviar3. I also can sidearm the aviar 3 on upshots up to 200ft confidently. The added benefit of the hyzer upshot on both backhand/sidearm is the ability to actually go for throw-ins and still have a shorter comeback putt. I've nailed a lot of 100-200ft upshots because of it (this is especially good in doubles).

for me i think the "3" versions can be great tools and partners to the normal more domey and glidey versions of molds also.

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  #30  
Old 01-21-2022, 09:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by @CD- View Post
Sure, Mako being released in premium plastic gets it moved into the group with the RocX/Wombat as discs that weren't popular enough (for Innova) to keep around with the bigger dome. Coyote/Mako/Lycan/MD all share some lineage/mold pieces and didn't mold up mid-low profile consistently so they are all OOP now.

Dave Dunipace has talked a few times about the history of the 3 series and Roc3
https://www.innovadiscs.com/disc-gol...iscs-have-a-3/

-DGU short blog about them (references the above podcast + some brief history)
https://discgolfunited.com/blog/post...3-series-discs

-mentions the Roc3 as being a straighter Roc in this video ~3:30


Flat/Lower dome = Increased flight speed (lower profile) + increased torque resistance (more RPMs = more neutral/straighter) + less glide

I think the original's flight numbers are mostly based on the plastic they were introduced with. Since DX shrinks more in the cooling process, the rim widths are slightly wider with the premium plastics = slightly higher 'speed' rating.
Thanks for posting this...I guess I need to amend my earlier statement. However, did DaveD forget making the San Marino Roc?
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