#21  
Old 01-07-2020, 01:55 PM
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Originally Posted by UhhNegative View Post
I'd like to see the stats to back up this idea. It's going to be very course dependent as well. There are some 250' holes that many top pros don't get, yet a wide open 400' hole? Most of the open field is going to have a good chance at a birdie there.
The stats have been posted multiple times, paging Chuck Kennedy. The problem is that "most have a good chance" doesn't convert to "most get a birdie", it converts to 10% get a birdie.
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  #22  
Old 01-07-2020, 02:21 PM
UhhNegative UhhNegative is offline
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The stats have been posted multiple times, paging Chuck Kennedy. The problem is that "most have a good chance" doesn't convert to "most get a birdie", it converts to 10% get a birdie.
Sure, but the little differences are what separate scores. I'm not sure it would be 10%.... Just based on some of the stats that they rattle off on Jomez. But you also have to think that not only do you have to throw a great drive, you have to hit the putt as well. More distance can also mitigate bogeys as well. Not as cut and dry as looking at birdie percentage as a function of distance. I can't find those stats anywhere so far.
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  #23  
Old 01-07-2020, 02:58 PM
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Originally Posted by SonicGuy View Post
I believe this notion is false. The statistics on how pros score on 400' wide open holes is pretty bad. Yeah the top 10 disc golfers in the world are converting at a higher rate, but they are also dragging the statistics up so for the rest of the field the 400' birdie conversion is even more rare. Unless you are saying that the 400' power is more for helping with those 360' holes...

I do think 400' distance is a big help, but more because it cuts down the longer holes into a surefire 3 and allows for inefficient lines up and over or way around.
I dunno man, there's a big difference between having a good drive and getting a circle 1 putt, and having the best drive of your life and still putting from the edge of circle 2.
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Old 01-07-2020, 03:04 PM
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Originally Posted by UhhNegative View Post
Sure, but the little differences are what separate scores. I'm not sure it would be 10%.... Just based on some of the stats that they rattle off on Jomez. But you also have to think that not only do you have to throw a great drive, you have to hit the putt as well. More distance can also mitigate bogeys as well. Not as cut and dry as looking at birdie percentage as a function of distance. I can't find those stats anywhere so far.
The original comment was literally about birdie percentage as a function of distance. Don't try to straw man me here.

As for how much difference that 10% makes, I mean, no this little difference is not what separates scores. How many holes on a course are within reach of 400' power but not 360' power? A couple? This isn't Jomez, nobody here is playing in those pro events where that is the ideal par 3 length with temp baskets and whatnot. Most courses out there are not heavily populated with that stretch par 3, so maybe you pick up 1/3 of a stroke a round. MAYBE.
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Old 01-07-2020, 03:06 PM
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I dunno man, there's a big difference between having a good drive and getting a circle 1 putt, and having the best drive of your life and still putting from the edge of circle 2.
My point is that even for big arms, landing circle 1 from 400' doesn't happen very often.
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Old 01-07-2020, 03:44 PM
UhhNegative UhhNegative is offline
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The original comment was literally about birdie percentage as a function of distance. Don't try to straw man me here.

As for how much difference that 10% makes, I mean, no this little difference is not what separates scores. How many holes on a course are within reach of 400' power but not 360' power? A couple? This isn't Jomez, nobody here is playing in those pro events where that is the ideal par 3 length with temp baskets and whatnot. Most courses out there are not heavily populated with that stretch par 3, so maybe you pick up 1/3 of a stroke a round. MAYBE.
But I thought we were talking about pros....
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Old 01-07-2020, 03:50 PM
UhhNegative UhhNegative is offline
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My point is that even for big arms, landing circle 1 from 400' doesn't happen very often.
I'm just not believing this. I would believe it if the stats back it up, but so far I'm looking at the Memorial from last year (just picked a random tournament; well and I know it has wide open long holes). All of the 400+ feet par 3s I've looked at so far have >25% birdie percentage... Seems to me you would need to actually throw that distance to get a birdie chance and about 25% of the pro field seem to do so.

Last edited by UhhNegative; 01-07-2020 at 03:53 PM.
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  #28  
Old 01-07-2020, 04:07 PM
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HyzerUniBomber HyzerUniBomber is offline
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Originally Posted by UhhNegative View Post
I'm just not believing this. I would believe it if the stats back it up, but so far I'm looking at the Memorial from last year (just picked a random tournament; well and I know it has wide open long holes). All of the 400+ feet par 3s I've looked at so far have >25% birdie percentage... Seems to me you would need to actually throw that distance to get a birdie chance and about 25% of the pro field seem to do so.
I'm not doubting your claim of distances, but you could easily have people throwing 375-380' and be left with 20-25' putts on the short side of 400'.

/devil's advocate
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Old 01-07-2020, 04:17 PM
UhhNegative UhhNegative is offline
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Originally Posted by HyzerUniBomber View Post
I'm not doubting your claim of distances, but you could easily have people throwing 375-380' and be left with 20-25' putts on the short side of 400'.

/devil's advocate
Very true, but less likely, especially for a full 25% of the field (the birdie % and C1 in regulation are close to the same). I just scrolled through the memorial rounds and looked at the holes >400 feet and par 3. Some are >450 and even those had ~25% birdie/C1 in regulation. Of course elevation/wind and all that comes into play as well but I've looked at enough holes to convince myself that throwing >400' accurately is a valuable skill for the pro level of play and not just the top 10 guys.
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  #30  
Old 01-07-2020, 05:44 PM
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Originally Posted by UhhNegative View Post
Very true, but less likely, especially for a full 25% of the field (the birdie % and C1 in regulation are close to the same). I just scrolled through the memorial rounds and looked at the holes >400 feet and par 3. Some are >450 and even those had ~25% birdie/C1 in regulation. Of course elevation/wind and all that comes into play as well but I've looked at enough holes to convince myself that throwing >400' accurately is a valuable skill for the pro level of play and not just the top 10 guys.
I like to equate it to being able to tow a trailer at your car's maximum capacity... sure, it will work - but you're not leaving much room for error.

If you're "pouring it on" to hit 400' - you better be operating a very tight ship. (so many metaphors here!)

I'd rather somebody be able to feel comfortable throwing 400' without having to flex a disc, use a turny disc or throw a roller.

True talk: in Colorado, I see a ton of MPO players that don't throw 450' on flat ground. They might be fairly accurate to 425' - but the jump between 60-65mph throwers and 70-75+ mph throwers is significant.



To be clear, I personally don't EVER see anybody except Eagle throwing shots that look like this 650+ shot.

https://www.pdga.com/tour/event/41911

Adam Hammes and AJ both maxing out at 468'. Can they throw further? Probably - but under pressure and with whatever wind conditions, reality is that it's very difficult to keep a disc in the air that long.

https://www.pdga.com/tour/event/37871

Dave Felberg hit 432' in the pro masters division.

Interesting discussion.

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Last edited by HyzerUniBomber; 01-07-2020 at 05:52 PM.
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