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View Poll Results: Which of these best describes Hole 18 at the Utah Open?
A par 2 where 38% of throws are errors, and 1% of throws are hero throws. 6 25.00%
A par 3 where 24% of throws are errors, and 33% of throws are hero throws. 16 66.67%
A par 4 where 16% of throws are hero throws, and 23% are double heroes. 1 4.17%
A par 5 where 37% of throws are hero throws, and 21% are double heroes. 0 0%
A par 6 where 16% of throws are hero throws, and 62% are double heroes. 1 4.17%
Voters: 24. You may not vote on this poll

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  #4001  
Old 02-14-2020, 09:20 PM
Steve West Steve West is offline
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With only one card of scores, I thought it would be a good test of whether my method works with limited data. So, with 1.53 effective rounds of data, my automatic recommendation generator would say:

"Based on the scores from Oak Grove (Hahamongna Park)/Wintertime Open Layout; 6500 Feet: Par for #16 was very likely too high. Holes #4 #7 #14 #17 were maybe too easy to be Par 3."

If par on all those holes were adjusted, par would have been 55 and an even-par round would have been rated 1011. That seems more appropriate for Open than the 967 rating for a score of even-par 60.
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  #4002  
Old 02-21-2020, 11:07 AM
Steve West Steve West is offline
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2020 Las Vegas Challenge presented by Innova Champion Discs/Infinite Discs Course/7,050 ft

Another win for "All holes are par 3"!

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  #4003  
Old 02-21-2020, 10:26 PM
Steve West Steve West is offline
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2020 Las Vegas Challenge presented by Innova Champion Discs/Innova Champion Course/8670

Wow, it would seem if you dump enough OB penalties into a hole to raise its average by 6/10ths of a throw, it can almost overwhelm my formula.

Almost.

There will be cases where it happens. It's not the definition, it's just a tool. Someday a hole will need a closer look at what an expert can score without errors.

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  #4004  
Old 02-28-2020, 12:01 AM
Steve West Steve West is offline
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Here's a new way to present the calculated pars based on scoring data.

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  #4005  
Old 02-28-2020, 07:08 AM
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No wind, Par 50 (yesterday's SSA). With some wind, holes 4 and 13 flip it to Par 52, the SSA when Paul shot his record 39.
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  #4006  
Old 02-28-2020, 07:14 AM
biscoe biscoe is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cgkdisc View Post
No wind, Par 50 (yesterday's SSA). With some wind, holes 4 and 13 flip it to Par 52, the SSA when Paul shot his record 39.
Par doesn't change when the wind blows... it just becomes more difficult to achieve.

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  #4007  
Old 02-28-2020, 07:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by biscoe View Post
Par doesn't change when the wind blows... it just becomes more difficult to achieve.
Agree that Pars are rule-of-thumb values set in advance. But calculated Pars, actually SSAs, are more meaningful as actual statistics once the data is available to better understand the story of that round. Even better for spectators if values were dynamically adjusted in live scoring during the round. This could be done but would reduce the wall of blue birdies.
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  #4008  
Old 02-28-2020, 08:11 AM
biscoe biscoe is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cgkdisc View Post
Agree that Pars are rule-of-thumb values set in advance. But calculated Pars, actually SSAs, are more meaningful as actual statistics once the data is available to better understand the story of that round. Even better for spectators if values were dynamically adjusted in live scoring during the round. This could be done but would reduce the wall of blue birdies.
While SSA's MAY be more useful that still does not make them par. You are muddying the waters by calling them such.

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  #4009  
Old 02-28-2020, 08:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by biscoe View Post
While SSA's MAY be more useful that still does not make them par. You are muddying the waters by calling them such.
I'm saying it would be an improvement if hole pars were updated as needed (likely less "padding") so they add up closer to the total course SSAs once determined, even though SSAs on open courses can vary up to 6 shots based on weather.
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  #4010  
Old 02-28-2020, 09:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by biscoe View Post
While SSA's MAY be more useful that still does not make them par. You are muddying the waters by calling them such.
Well, we needed another definition of "par". Lord knows, we don't have enough of them.
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