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Old 02-20-2020, 11:17 PM
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stratedge stratedge is offline
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Default Lead shoulder shrug

When I throw, I shrug my lead should up high, really high, and it's driving me absolutely crazy. It seems like such an easy thing to fix ("just relax" or "don't strong arm the disc") but it's not that simple... my shoulders ARE relaxed. Or at least, they feel relaxed to me, and so I can't relax anymore than they are.


(Sorry for the blur, iphone video. Ignore the disc being high, it's a byproduct of the shrug.)

Trying to keep my left arm tight to my body, and even doing the "swim" to accelerate my throwing arm through the hit, seems to have made this worse of late. I think that the negative consequences of the shrug are it slows the movement of the disc into and through the power pocket, and also causes the disc itself to move on an uneven plane (as you can see in the picture, the disc swoops if I do it badly).

Please understand before commenting that when I throw, I swear I'm not doing it. I check a video, say "I'm not going to do that", try to compensate in any number of different ways, think "yeah that was better", check the video, and get angry because it's still there and maybe even worse now. The obvious answer would be that I'm using my shoulder to initiate the throw, or pull it into my body, but I swear to you I am not. I'm working on keeping my upper arm at a fixed 90 degrees to my shoulders, and only using my forearm to go out-in-out during the throw. There's some break in my shoulder off 90 degrees still, but for the most part, I feel I've really transitioned towards hips/core/shoulders and am not an arm-based thrower anymore. I can get in the 400-425 range, though I honestly couldn't tell you if I'm completely not shrugging when I do that or it's still there.

My own theory at the moment is that it's not a problem with the way I'm pulling the disc forward (towards the target), it's actually something about the way I pull the disc towards my body for the power pocket. Like... I naturally want to pull the disc to my sternum, maybe I'm aiming too high and subconsciously 'choking up' to get the disc higher? Maybe I'll try pulling through lower tomorrow and seeing what happens?

Anyway, does anyone have any experience with this? How did you address it?
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  #2  
Old 02-20-2020, 11:47 PM
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sidewinder22 sidewinder22 is offline
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See it all the time, and used to do it. Often related to trying to "shift from in front" instead of "shifting from behind". You aren't swinging your shoulder balanced on your front leg/hip, you are falling/collapsing behind your front leg/hip so your shoulder gets jacked up behind the leg/hip instead of swinging over it. You really have to get up on your front hip to allow your shoulder to hang and swing freely. It will probably feel over very the top to you doing one leg drill.



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Old 02-21-2020, 09:13 AM
UhhNegative UhhNegative is offline
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Go very slowly, perpetual motion swing back and forth. Let the arm/disc have its own weight and there's no way your shoulder can shrug up like that. Then slowly add speed but the lower arm has to stay loose. The lag into the chest happens naturally as the elbow goes forward. The "inward pull" to the power pocket isn't something that you do with your arm consciously. Your butt/hips is what is what should be pulling the whole thing forwards. So to sidewinders point, it might be a problem from the bottom up.

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Old 02-21-2020, 09:18 AM
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stratedge stratedge is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sidewinder22 View Post
See it all the time, and used to do it. Often related to trying to "shift from in front" instead of "shifting from behind". You aren't swinging your shoulder balanced on your front leg/hip, you are falling/collapsing behind your front leg/hip so your shoulder gets jacked up behind the leg/hip instead of swinging over it. You really have to get up on your front hip to allow your shoulder to hang and swing freely. It will probably feel over very the top to you doing one leg drill.
Can't thank you enough for this input, this makes a lot of sense to me and was not where I was looking. Seems kind of obvious too. It's like I can't find my sunglasses, and you point out they're on top of my head.

I've been experimenting a lot with good hip rotation and actively powering the hips, and a lot of the stuff from other posts about "jamming up" on the right hip rather than freely rotating around it has been an issue I recognized. Hadn't connected it with the shoulder, and I am basically focused on one thing at a time. I thought I'd mostly addressed the hip thing but I bet it's creeping back in.

So... help me understand what good feels like, please. For a while last year I was blowing through my plant foot, and essentially taking one step forward after the throw, but fairly under control. The throws felt good but I wanted to harness that energy and stay back more, the goal being to finish close to balanced on my front leg, just like the one leg drill. Does it seem like I've gone too far the other way, and what I need is something in between?

I actually feel like I can do the one leg pretty well, I just don't think I'm using it in the same way I should be during a run up.
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Old 02-21-2020, 10:21 AM
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Lumberjack504 Lumberjack504 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stratedge View Post
Can't thank you enough for this input, this makes a lot of sense to me and was not where I was looking. Seems kind of obvious too. It's like I can't find my sunglasses, and you point out they're on top of my head.

I've been experimenting a lot with good hip rotation and actively powering the hips, and a lot of the stuff from other posts about "jamming up" on the right hip rather than freely rotating around it has been an issue I recognized. Hadn't connected it with the shoulder, and I am basically focused on one thing at a time. I thought I'd mostly addressed the hip thing but I bet it's creeping back in.

So... help me understand what good feels like, please. For a while last year I was blowing through my plant foot, and essentially taking one step forward after the throw, but fairly under control. The throws felt good but I wanted to harness that energy and stay back more, the goal being to finish close to balanced on my front leg, just like the one leg drill. Does it seem like I've gone too far the other way, and what I need is something in between?

I actually feel like I can do the one leg pretty well, I just don't think I'm using it in the same way I should be during a run up.
Hello, my name is Lumberjack, and I'm a shoulder shrugger.

Proof:



This issue has frustrated me as well. I believe that it's a result of improper balance or posture, as SW said. I tend to drift right to left into my plant, instead of striding straighter and shifting from behind. I really need to strip it down to the one leg drill, and then to a stand still, then to an x-step, etc. It's likely not as hard of a fix as I'm making it out to be. I really want to try just over-exaggerating a straight, almost L-R stride into the plant to try to un-do ingrained bad habits.

As to what you're asking, I recommend you watch this video. Over. And over. And over.

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Old 02-21-2020, 01:12 PM
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drk_evns drk_evns is offline
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https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forum...d.php?t=134329

You're not doing Step 3.
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Old 02-21-2020, 08:31 PM
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stratedge stratedge is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sidewinder22 View Post
It will probably feel over very the top to you doing one leg drill.
... also, would you mind clarifying this. Are you saying you think I'll feel like I'm going to fall forward doing the one leg drill? If so, forward towards the target or forward over my toes?
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Old 02-21-2020, 08:51 PM
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sidewinder22 sidewinder22 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stratedge View Post
So... help me understand what good feels like, please. For a while last year I was blowing through my plant foot, and essentially taking one step forward after the throw, but fairly under control. The throws felt good but I wanted to harness that energy and stay back more, the goal being to finish close to balanced on my front leg, just like the one leg drill. Does it seem like I've gone too far the other way, and what I need is something in between?
Probably. Finding balance is usually a series of corrections back and forth less and less, just like learning to walk.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stratedge View Post
... also, would you mind clarifying this. Are you saying you think I'll feel like I'm going to fall forward doing the one leg drill? If so, forward towards the target or forward over my toes?
Wherever your chest is pointed.
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Old 02-21-2020, 09:04 PM
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Originally Posted by sidewinder22 View Post
Probably. Finding balance is usually a series of corrections back and forth less and less, just like learning to walk.
What if I told you that tonight I took video while doing the one leg drill, and I'm still shrugging?

I can stand on one leg, throw hard, stay balanced, and yet while the disc is in the power pocket my throwing arm shoulder is still high. I'm taking this as an indication that the problem is not with where my centre of balance is / jamming up, but more to do with how I move the disc with my arm. I was trying to feel it as I do it, and I think I was right when I said it has to do with how I pull the disc to my chest and then out again; I think I am subconsciously / muscle memory using my shoulder t and can't stop. Obviously it doesn't happen if I just bring the disc to my chest, so I think I've got some kind of issue where it's like my shoulder is bracing just like my leg is... it's getting ready for the disc to power through, and subconsciously tightens up.

I'm going to need shock therapy or something...

Last edited by stratedge; 02-21-2020 at 09:08 PM.
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Old 02-21-2020, 09:36 PM
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sidewinder22 sidewinder22 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stratedge View Post
What if I told you that tonight I took video while doing the one leg drill, and I'm still shrugging?

I can stand on one leg, throw hard, stay balanced, and yet while the disc is in the power pocket my throwing arm shoulder is still high. I'm taking this as an indication that the problem is not with where my centre of balance is / jamming up, but more to do with how I move the disc with my arm. I was trying to feel it as I do it, and I think I was right when I said it has to do with how I pull the disc to my chest and then out again; I think I am subconsciously / muscle memory using my shoulder t and can't stop. Obviously it doesn't happen if I just bring the disc to my chest, so I think I've got some kind of issue where it's like my shoulder is bracing just like my leg is... it's getting ready for the disc to power through, and subconsciously tightens up.

I'm going to need shock therapy or something...
I'd like to see the video/s. You have to let go of your arm/disc and swing your shoulder.



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