Disc Golf Course Review So you want to make the basket smaller for Pros? Here's how we do it.
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#1281
09-03-2020, 11:30 PM
 txmxer Birdie Member Join Date: Aug 2020 Location: Texas Years Playing: 0.7 Courses Played: 2 Throwing Style: RHBH Posts: 353 Niced 289 Times in 137 Posts

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Steve West If it were a single gap, then we need to know how far from the tee the gap is. A 6 foot gap 100 feet from the tee requires the throw to be within 1.7 degrees of center. Hitting that angle is 97.1% luck for 1000-rated players.
As amazingly geeky as all of that is, are you sure about the 6’ gap at 100’ needs to be at 1.7 degrees? If it’s a gap and not a corridor, the then it only needs to be within that gap at that moment. Not a straight line.
#1282
09-04-2020, 12:06 AM
 Cgkdisc .:Hall of Fame Member:. Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Twin Cities Years Playing: 31.6 Courses Played: 710 Throwing Style: RHBH Posts: 12,847 Niced 2,551 Times in 1,080 Posts

Remember that every gap is slightly more than 8" (~21cm) smaller than its measured width due to the diameter of the disc when thrown horizontally (flat).
#1283
09-04-2020, 04:11 AM
 Jugular Birdie Member Join Date: Sep 2019 Location: Surrey, England Posts: 327 Niced 189 Times in 110 Posts

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Steve West If it were a single gap, then we need to know how far from the tee the gap is. A 6 foot gap 100 feet from the tee requires the throw to be within 1.7 degrees of center. Hitting that angle is 97.1% luck for 1000-rated players.
How many 1000-rated players did you use in your sample? How did they confirm to you that they released when they expected to?
#1284
09-04-2020, 04:24 AM
 wolfhaley Double Eagle Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: WI Years Playing: 16.5 Courses Played: 525 Throwing Style: RHBH Posts: 1,796 Niced 1,547 Times in 737 Posts

I haven't read this one in awhile. Are trees in the fairway ridiculous still? Just curious.

 Niced: (3)
#1285
09-04-2020, 10:25 AM
 Jovomagic Newbie Join Date: Mar 2018 Courses Played: 2 Posts: 20 Niced 18 Times in 9 Posts

Quote:
 Originally Posted by oldmandiscer No I was mentioning Ricky from this last tourney. He was 100% through I think the first 3 rounds. I am simply asking people to consider the difficulty once. Nobody is 100% over the long term of course.
Didn't read the whole thread after this post so sorry if mentioned before. But this is one person in one tournament. In nearly every DGPT tournament the winner played exceptionally good and maybe three to five other players. But the stats after the top ten are clearly lower. Not in every stat and c1x-putting does not have a hard break of the percentage after the top ten but when the lower 30-50% of the players in a professional tournament do only 40-70% of their c1x putts I don't think it's too easy. I would not have a problem with a 20-30% smaller basket, but I think a lot of people will.

I don't know if more professionalism(and if smaller baskets are more professional is an assumption not shared by all people as seen in this thread) gets more people into disc golf to grow the sport or a basket that is perfectly shaped for an estimated 98% of the players including new players and propably a lot of pros too.
#1286
09-04-2020, 10:36 AM
 Jovomagic Newbie Join Date: Mar 2018 Courses Played: 2 Posts: 20 Niced 18 Times in 9 Posts

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Hampstead I'd support getting rid of the jump putt before I support changing the basket.
Even if this is not the main topic here, I have to come back to the topic of jump-putting. If there is another thread where this fits better, I apologize in advance. Because for me the whole discussion is approached from the wrong side. It shouldn't be about banning it or not, it should be about technically correct execution. If the execution is correct, the disc will always leave the hand before the feet leave the ground. Because the whole sense of jump putting lays in the additional force submitted by the lower body. If the body is already in midair, no more force can be added to the putt. If I want to get the maximum out of the jump putt, and the max distance for this is obviously different from person to person, then the disc must leave the hand exactly before the feet leave the ground at the maximal extension of the body. But I assume for most of the circle 2 putts, you don’t have do a maximum force jump putt. Therefore, it should be possible, at least for the pros, to execute a jump putt within circle 2 and possibly beyond, where the disc leaves the hand well before the feet leave the ground.

In my opinion this is a skill that can and should be trained. This is something you can at least expect from professional athletes, so this discussion should not really be an issue in the professional field. Sure, disc golf is kind of a young sport, and there is no referee as in other sports, but there should be some kind of technical excellence, you can expect from a player at a certain level.

I have been playing volleyball for over 20 years and have trained volleyball players at different levels in youth and adult teams for over 12 years. At a certain level of play technical mistakes are not forgiven and if I am not able to play a set correctly the referee will blow the whistle and a coach will not let me play as a setter if my technical skills do not allow it.

So, for me a technical correct jump putt is in line with the current rules, so there is no reason to forbid it. But if someone makes a technically incorrect jump putt and therefore a footfault the players of the group have to call it, as it is done according to the rules. I realize that it can be quite difficult to see the error. But here I would proceed as with all other borderline decisions. When the disc is tight at the OB line or at a water edge etc. we have seen many times that the players, especially the professionals, discuss the situation until they come to a result according to the rules and if it is unclear they decide to give the advantage to the player.

That's why I think if the time lag between discrelease and jump is so small that you can't perceive it, you should decide for the player. With a jump putt like Hokom in the example given earlier in the thread I think you should see with the bare eye that it is against the rules.

For me personally it is much more difficult to assess the rule conformity of step putts. Here you have the back feet which could leave the ground before discrelease and the front feet which could have contact to the ground again before discrelease. I think there is a lot higher potential of errors in step putting, also because of the partly very non-harmonic patterns of movement.

I have picked out a few examples from the 2019 DGPT Championship:
(couldn't embed them with timestamp)

https://youtu.be/HlutkhqiXsI?t=1503
Dickerson – this is a very typical stepputt from him, but you’ll see that this is against the rules as he is totally in midair with both of his feet when he releases the disc. At least I wouldn’t even call this a “step” because he is in fact jumping, both feet in the air. I think this is also an example where you could see the rule violation with the bare eye.

https://youtu.be/HlutkhqiXsI?t=1298
Heimburg – there you see a putt just outside circle one, so he releases way before his maximum extension it isn’t even a complete jump, this could rather be called a step.

https://youtu.be/HlutkhqiXsI?t=1729
Jones – he is in fact mostly in full extension when releasing the disc at his jump putts and depending on the camera angle it's hard to see even if you click through frame by frame. But in this example the disc is out of the hand before the feet leave the ground. As you can see he makes a technically clean jump putt. When he is at the limit of his jump putting distance, it is probably even more difficult to determine. In this situation I think that exactly what I have described above would work, in doubt advantage for the player.

At the final round of the preserve you can also watch Heimburg, Lizotte and Locastro all do correct jump putts. Didn’t find one of Eagle, but I assume he is also capable of it.

That’s my perspective. I can understand that it is hard to judge and therefore some people do not share my opinion. I think the most called argument of the people that are against jump putting is the difficulty of judging. I can understand this and propably most of the MPO players could develop a puttingstyle for circle 2 that can make the disc reach the basket without jumping, but I think this also reduces the dynamic of the game…and at least for me jump putting is fun to do.
#1287
09-04-2020, 11:47 AM
 oldmandiscer Eagle Member Join Date: Jun 2020 Posts: 740 Niced 141 Times in 97 Posts

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Jovomagic Didn't read the whole thread after this post so sorry if mentioned before. But this is one person in one tournament. In nearly every DGPT tournament the winner played exceptionally good and maybe three to five other players. But the stats after the top ten are clearly lower. Not in every stat and c1x-putting does not have a hard break of the percentage after the top ten but when the lower 30-50% of the players in a professional tournament do only 40-70% of their c1x putts I don't think it's too easy. I would not have a problem with a 20-30% smaller basket, but I think a lot of people will. I don't know if more professionalism(and if smaller baskets are more professional is an assumption not shared by all people as seen in this thread) gets more people into disc golf to grow the sport or a basket that is perfectly shaped for an estimated 98% of the players including new players and propably a lot of pros too.
Sure but if you are sub 1000 rated, you really have no business trying to compete at the highest level against Ricky, Eagle and Paul though. I get it if you are an up and coming player and improving. But I see many 900 rated players that have no business being compared to them. Stay amateur or win some local C tiers. I get it if it's purely for enjoyment, I just don't, or we shouldn't even consider their stats as they have no chance to win over 3-4 rounds.

I doubt they are even as low as 40% from C1X. Eagle is 88% over an entire season.
#1288
09-04-2020, 12:04 PM
 Emoney * Ace Member * Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Austin, TX Years Playing: 12.5 Courses Played: 81 Throwing Style: RHBH Posts: 2,335 Niced 607 Times in 313 Posts

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Jovomagic Didn't read the whole thread after this post so sorry if mentioned before. But this is one person in one tournament. In nearly every DGPT tournament the winner played exceptionally good and maybe three to five other players. But the stats after the top ten are clearly lower. .
This is the whole point for smaller baskets. How many players are full time sponsored players? Maybe 15?

We cant use the stats for the whole open field to determine how difficult circle 1 putting is. Most "open" players have other full time jobs.

Since players started making enough to play full time, they have been slaughtering courses and showing us that disc golf is relatively easy if your allowed to focus on just DG.

Smaller baskets are def a great talking point for the future of disc golf at the Pro level. It is an obvious way to add challenge to any course that exists today without changing the layout/teepads.

Im all for smaller baskets and moving the basket position after each day.

 Niced: (1)

Last edited by Emoney; 09-04-2020 at 12:07 PM.
#1289
09-04-2020, 01:20 PM
 txmxer Birdie Member Join Date: Aug 2020 Location: Texas Years Playing: 0.7 Courses Played: 2 Throwing Style: RHBH Posts: 353 Niced 289 Times in 137 Posts

Quote:
 Originally Posted by wolfhaley I haven't read this one in awhile. Are trees in the fairway ridiculous still? Just curious.
we now call it the NOTfairway.

 Niced: (1)

#1290
09-04-2020, 01:29 PM
 ballgolfconvert Birdie Member Join Date: Jan 2019 Years Playing: 36.8 Courses Played: 2 Throwing Style: RHBH Posts: 337 Niced 165 Times in 102 Posts

Quote:
it is the time to remove chains and slide the new Pole over the existing pole. Max 15 minutes per hole with 2 people.

 Niced: (1)