#141  
Old 05-21-2018, 08:18 PM
DanJon DanJon is offline
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Originally Posted by illyB420 View Post
Dude, it clearly states and C tier and below the TD has the option, at B tier and above, TD has no choice but to DQ. It's simple, cut and dry. Caddy and player are the same, caddy broke a rule at a Major, both player and caddy get DQ, no choice at all.
The TD did have a choice in this situation.

See the word "may" in the rules.
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  #142  
Old 05-21-2018, 08:21 PM
JC17393 JC17393 is offline
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Originally Posted by tampabay View Post
If I'm not mistaken JC is a touring pro...so I feel like he would have a pertinent opinion on this. No need for all the salt dude.
A sponsored pro, but not a touring one.

Bottom line is the Competition Manual and its rules regarding caddies has been in place pretty much unchanged for a number of years now, and the interpretation of them has always been that whatever violations the caddy incurs, the punishment is meted out to the player for whom they are working. There is no, or there is not intended to be, any wiggle room for the TD to take half measures or to treat caddy and player as separate entities. If the caddy commits an action that warrants a courtesy violation, the player gets the courtesy violation. If the caddy breaks a rule for which DQ is the required action, the player is DQed from the event.

To my knowledge, the rule as written hasn't been interpreted any differently by anyone until this thread. Stands to reason that if no one has yet brought up the notion that the text could be interpreted in an unintended way, there's no reason the rules committee would think the text needed to be changed. And the only way for the rules committee to know this would be to inform them and, if you're being helpful, to suggest an alternative wording that does accomplish what they intend with no room for doubt. If you're unwilling to do that, then you have no room to argue or complain about the job they are/aren't doing with the rule book.

Also, this was an NT event. If you think the TD acted without consulting with a number of PDGA officials (Tour Manager, Event Manager, etc), you'd be sorely mistaken. This wasn't the act of a single TD making his own interpretation. This was as good as all of the PDGA's powers-that-be making the call.


Last edited by JC17393; 05-21-2018 at 08:24 PM.
  #143  
Old 05-21-2018, 08:28 PM
DanJon DanJon is offline
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If it was an empty beer can, then there was no possession of alcohol.

Just possession of an aluminum can.

What a joke.

  #144  
Old 05-21-2018, 08:28 PM
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SonicGuy SonicGuy is offline
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All right, let's hear all the times that the rules committee said it is the way you are declaring. Not that it matters for my argument, my argument is predicated on the language of the rule. But it matters dearly to your argument, so go ahead and argue it instead of making sweeping statements without backing.

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  #145  
Old 05-21-2018, 08:41 PM
dorseymatt dorseymatt is offline
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It seems silly to not release the full details of what happened. Jamie, I appreciate what information you’ve provided, and I look forward to hearing more. But the parties involved, the reporters, etc should be saying what happened.
Whether the players etc like it or not, this is a professional sport with diehard fans. If it were a major sport, the details would be out, and there would be no room for speculation. As a fan, my expectation/hope is that disc golf is covered like a major sport.

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  #146  
Old 05-21-2018, 09:02 PM
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lyleoross lyleoross is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanJon View Post
If it was an empty beer can, then there was no possession of alcohol.

Just possession of an aluminum can.

What a joke.
I think that's the point. I seriously doubt it was an empty can. No one works that way.
  #147  
Old 05-21-2018, 09:12 PM
paulw paulw is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SonicGuy View Post
All right, let's hear all the times that the rules committee said it is the way you are declaring. Not that it matters for my argument, my argument is predicated on the language of the rule. But it matters dearly to your argument, so go ahead and argue it instead of making sweeping statements without backing.
Um -- well, since it's getting salty in here, remember that neither of your arguments matter since you're on a message board, just saying.

  #148  
Old 05-21-2018, 09:24 PM
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wolfmandragon wolfmandragon is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paulw View Post
Um -- well, since it's getting salty in here, remember that neither of your arguments matter since you're on a message board, just saying.
I would disagree with that. Sound arguments here may change the way TDs run smaller tourneys, which may one day grow large.

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Last edited by wolfmandragon; 05-21-2018 at 09:26 PM.
  #149  
Old 05-21-2018, 09:29 PM
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jeffmonty jeffmonty is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aim For The Chains View Post
4 real. DG should embrace the culture.

Dranxing and zmoke'n awwwwlllldaeeee! $
We call it league...

 

  #150  
Old 05-21-2018, 09:39 PM
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Doofenshmirtz Doofenshmirtz is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JC17393 View Post
Bottom line is the Competition Manual and its rules regarding caddies has been in place pretty much unchanged for a number of years now, and the interpretation of them has always been that whatever violations the caddy incurs, the punishment is meted out to the player for whom they are working. There is no, or there is not intended to be, any wiggle room for the TD to take half measures or to treat caddy and player as separate entities. If the caddy commits an action that warrants a courtesy violation, the player gets the courtesy violation. If the caddy breaks a rule for which DQ is the required action, the player is DQed from the event.

To my knowledge, the rule as written hasn't been interpreted any differently by anyone until this thread. Stands to reason that if no one has yet brought up the notion that the text could be interpreted in an unintended way, there's no reason the rules committee would think the text needed to be changed. And the only way for the rules committee to know this would be to inform them and, if you're being helpful, to suggest an alternative wording that does accomplish what they intend with no room for doubt. If you're unwilling to do that, then you have no room to argue or complain about the job they are/aren't doing with the rule book.
It doesn't matter how many people believes that the word "may" is not permissive, it is permissive. There is no stare decisis in the rules. "May" means "may," not "must" or "shall."

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