#151  
Old 11-16-2017, 02:27 PM
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Originally Posted by JTacoma03 View Post
Well that's the million dollar question isn't it? The first person to answer that correctly (and show work) will be a happy entrepreneur.

I just think both of the tours began 2-3 years too soon. They're spending too much time either a) assisting with the 'heavy lifting' part of the growth curve which is too soon for major partners/investors, or b) making too many compromises to their quality objective which results in a product that people are 7/10 excited about instead of 10/10.

These are of course just my opinions, based on my experience working with both tours, and obviously these are 'lessons learned in hindsight' and not 'I told you so' prophecy.
I'll agree with you on the DGWT, while also adding in the caveat that Jussi really did not help himself at all from a PR perspective with some of the things he said/did. However, I think the Pro Tour started at about the right time, and is positioning itself through doing some of the heavy lifting to be one of the premier tours. Part of this is the lessons which have been learned and ideas tried when it's peanuts on the line, compared to the big money that could potentially be had in the next 3-5 years (or longer) with growth. In some respects they are also learning from the NT from both a macro (i.e. analyzing what was done well or not done well) and from Steve's own experience running a NT tournament for a while. Steve has basically taken a lot of the tournaments that pros were already playing as part of their individual tours and linked them together to form a cohesive tour with a tour championship finale at the end of the year. While it may not be big enough yet for some of the huge names to get on board with playing in all the events, it has certainly created a tour which many of the second tier pros can play in and make enough to make touring possible. He's also using the brand to create bigger tournaments (the Idlewild Open and Jonesboro Open last year, for example, as well as the San Francisco event this year) to see what will stick and what won't. To me, that's a worthwhile investment of work because you're able to build your own brand and coordinate efforts, rather than have everyone do their own thing and then try to knit it all together (for example, the Nick Hyde Memorial dropping from the tour this year because of all the extra stuff that goes along with running a Pro Tour event)
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  #152  
Old 11-22-2017, 10:06 PM
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Originally Posted by sjberry2017 View Post
I'll agree with you on the DGWT, while also adding in the caveat that Jussi really did not help himself at all from a PR perspective with some of the things he said/did. However, I think the Pro Tour started at about the right time, and is positioning itself through doing some of the heavy lifting to be one of the premier tours. Part of this is the lessons which have been learned and ideas tried when it's peanuts on the line, compared to the big money that could potentially be had in the next 3-5 years (or longer) with growth. In some respects they are also learning from the NT from both a macro (i.e. analyzing what was done well or not done well) and from Steve's own experience running a NT tournament for a while. Steve has basically taken a lot of the tournaments that pros were already playing as part of their individual tours and linked them together to form a cohesive tour with a tour championship finale at the end of the year. While it may not be big enough yet for some of the huge names to get on board with playing in all the events, it has certainly created a tour which many of the second tier pros can play in and make enough to make touring possible. He's also using the brand to create bigger tournaments (the Idlewild Open and Jonesboro Open last year, for example, as well as the San Francisco event this year) to see what will stick and what won't. To me, that's a worthwhile investment of work because you're able to build your own brand and coordinate efforts, rather than have everyone do their own thing and then try to knit it all together (for example, the Nick Hyde Memorial dropping from the tour this year because of all the extra stuff that goes along with running a Pro Tour event)
Not trying to sound argumentative, but everything you mentioned as a pro about the DGPT, the DGWT was doing equally as well. It was just an internationally focused concept and not a US-focused one. In general, the US audience didn't appreciate not being the focus of all of the attention IMO.

The biggest difference in the tours to me was the caliber of events (which goes hands down to the DGWT in terms of both prestige and organization), and the fact that DGWT insourced its media whereas DGPT spreads it out. The cons for the DGPT is that the viewership isn't in the same league as WT events, but the pro is that Steve pays much less and the audience shoulders that burden on multiple fronts (Patreon, Merchandise, etc.)
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  #153  
Old 11-22-2017, 10:18 PM
tomdizzlefizzle tomdizzlefizzle is offline
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I just farted and It smells like cabbage.
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  #154  
Old 11-22-2017, 10:29 PM
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Originally Posted by JTacoma03 View Post

The biggest difference in the tours to me was the caliber of events (which goes hands down to the DGWT in terms of both prestige and organization), and the fact that DGWT insourced its media whereas DGPT spreads it out. The cons for the DGPT is that the viewership isn't in the same league as WT events, but the pro is that Steve pays much less and the audience shoulders that burden on multiple fronts (Patreon, Merchandise, etc.)
DGPT Championship Final round live stream/vid view count: 20,592
Smashboxx DGPT CHamp final round live stream/vid view count: 15,799
Jomez coverage of DGPT final round: f9 80,585 b9 75,592


DGWT USDGC final round lead card: f9 93,380 b9 90,568
Also, roughly half as many people also watched the chase card vids.



Am I missing something?.....

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  #155  
Old 11-22-2017, 10:57 PM
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Interesting numbers. Among other things, the DGPT final round was an event created entirely by the DGPT, whereas the DGWT USDGC final round was an event whose prestige preceded the tour.....and had the virtue of already being a Major, one of the top 2 events on the calendar for more than a decade.

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  #156  
Old 11-23-2017, 02:47 AM
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DGPT Championship Final round live stream/vid view count: 20,592
Smashboxx DGPT CHamp final round live stream/vid view count: 15,799
Jomez coverage of DGPT final round: f9 80,585 b9 75,592


DGWT USDGC final round lead card: f9 93,380 b9 90,568
Also, roughly half as many people also watched the chase card vids.



Am I missing something?.....

DGWT event final rounds for 2017 averaged 102,800 views
DGPT event final rounds (last 4 events) averaged 78,357 views

SpinTV has 15k more subs than Jomez, gets 24,500 more views on average on the compared vids.

So maybe "not in the same league" is a bit of a stretch but almost 24% more views is nothing to scoff at either considering it's literally the same product.


Feel free to agree or disagree but I'm not going down a rabbit hole on this. I can see over the proverbial edge here and I don't want to turn this into another tired DGPT vs DGWT debate. That path has been worn enough, my bigger point is still that I'm of the opinion that both tours were too early to be viable. Time will tell, and if I'm wrong that means good things for the sport so it's a win-win.

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  #157  
Old 11-24-2017, 09:59 PM
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Originally Posted by JTacoma03 View Post
In general, the US audience didn't appreciate not being the focus of all of the attention IMO.
Completely disagree with this. Fans in the USA appreciate good disc golf in Europe, Australia, Japan, etc., as well as the USA. You're really clutching at straws to blame American DG fans for Jussi's failures.

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  #158  
Old 11-24-2017, 10:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JTacoma03 View Post
DGWT event final rounds for 2017 averaged 102,800 views
DGPT event final rounds (last 4 events) averaged 78,357 views

SpinTV has 15k more subs than Jomez, gets 24,500 more views on average on the compared vids.

So maybe "not in the same league" is a bit of a stretch but almost 24% more views is nothing to scoff at either considering it's literally the same product.


Feel free to agree or disagree but I'm not going down a rabbit hole on this. I can see over the proverbial edge here and I don't want to turn this into another tired DGPT vs DGWT debate. That path has been worn enough, my bigger point is still that I'm of the opinion that both tours were too early to be viable. Time will tell, and if I'm wrong that means good things for the sport so it's a win-win.
Not arguing here but I'm not sure what subscribers proves other than your brand is twice as old and started as a media vehicle for Innova/DM. I'd be curious to know which channel has gained more in the last 2 years when Jomez first started gaining more ground and both tours came around. That would be probably more telling considering that covers the entire lifespan of both tours. I also know nothing of the media agreements, this is purely my outside observation on the success of both in the past 2 years where Jomez appears to be more popular with most fans as a result of the US focused DGPT.

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  #159  
Old 11-24-2017, 10:22 PM
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Didn't Jomez do the post-pro coverage for both tours?...
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  #160  
Old 11-24-2017, 10:38 PM
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My thought is this comparison of coverage numbers masks the bigger issue of numbers large enough to generate not only enough income to support that coverage but the 10s of thousands in $$ and resources truly needed to host each event of this magnitude. Speaking of magnitude, are we talking one order of magnitude (10x) increase in viewership? Not that Dodge and Jussi are required to share their financials. But some better estimate of viewership needs might help guide this discussion and perhaps brainstorm new ways to improve them.
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