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View Poll Results: Which of these best describes Hole 18 at the Utah Open?
A par 2 where 38% of throws are errors, and 1% of throws are hero throws. 6 25.00%
A par 3 where 24% of throws are errors, and 33% of throws are hero throws. 16 66.67%
A par 4 where 16% of throws are hero throws, and 23% are double heroes. 1 4.17%
A par 5 where 37% of throws are hero throws, and 21% are double heroes. 0 0%
A par 6 where 16% of throws are hero throws, and 62% are double heroes. 1 4.17%
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  #1351  
Old 06-21-2017, 05:27 PM
Steve West Steve West is offline
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Originally Posted by _MTL_ View Post
Steve, do you think it's ok to have an eagle on a par 5?
Of course. Any hole can have eagles (except par 2s). But, if par is set right, there won't be many of them. Maybe none. That's not what determines par, though. The expected score does. For #18, this looks like 4 to me, even though the 6s are inflating the average score.

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  #1352  
Old 06-21-2017, 06:04 PM
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I'm wondering if hole 18 design was tweaked. It always seemed like a solid par 5 since it was tough to get your drive in position to even have a chance to shape a "hero" second throw to get near the pin. Obviously several were able to do so today.
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  #1353  
Old 06-21-2017, 07:46 PM
Steve West Steve West is offline
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I'm wondering if hole 18 design was tweaked. It always seemed like a solid par 5 since it was tough to get your drive in position to even have a chance to shape a "hero" second throw to get near the pin. Obviously several were able to do so today.
For par, "near" means two more throws. Why the dip at 5? Was the creek hungry? Seems like there was a tree missing last time I played it.

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  #1354  
Old 06-21-2017, 07:49 PM
Steve West Steve West is offline
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Here's how the pars for the short tees worked for FPO. Pretty good, but 5 and 14 should be par 5. I'll mentally adjust accordingly when I watch the videos.

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  #1355  
Old 06-22-2017, 01:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Steve West View Post
Of course. Any hole can have eagles (except par 2s). But, if par is set right, there won't be many of them. Maybe none. That's not what determines par, though. The expected score does. For #18, this looks like 4 to me, even though the 6s are inflating the average score.
What does the average have to do with the expected score?
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  #1356  
Old 06-22-2017, 03:09 PM
Steve West Steve West is offline
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What does the average have to do with the expected score?
A high average score can influence some people's perceptions about what par should be. For example, a par 4 hole can "seem like it should be" a par 5 if there are a lot more 6s than you would normally see on a par 4.
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  #1357  
Old 06-22-2017, 03:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Steve West View Post
A high average score can influence some people's perceptions about what par should be. For example, a par 4 hole can "seem like it should be" a par 5 if there are a lot more 6s than you would normally see on a par 4.
lol, you're determining something. It's definitely a thing. It's just not par.
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  #1358  
Old 06-22-2017, 03:12 PM
Steve West Steve West is offline
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Ft. Gordon - Marine/Navy, Short has good pars for the FPO. Total of 66 is appropriate. A couple of holes could be one of two different pars. I'll give it a grade of A.

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  #1359  
Old 06-22-2017, 04:15 PM
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Based on Gold par not Blue par? Looks like the SSA is coming in around 59 for FPO.
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  #1360  
Old 06-22-2017, 05:30 PM
Steve West Steve West is offline
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Originally Posted by Cgkdisc View Post
Based on Gold par not Blue par? Looks like the SSA is coming in around 59 for FPO.
Pink par, based on a 925 rated player. That's the most analogous to 1000 for MPO.
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