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Old 09-03-2020, 12:31 PM
Steve West Steve West is offline
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Default Placing a mini on the tee pad.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by rocthecourse View Post
Can someone who is up on the rules let me know who is right about using a marker on the tee pad? The situation comes up at 1:01:30. Jerm places a mini marker on the tee pad and Uli tells him that it isn't legal.

Thank you in advance.
Quote:
Can 813.02 Illegal Device
A. A player must not use any device that directly assists in making a throw. Devices that reduce or control abrasion to the skin (such as gloves, tape, bandages, or gauze) and medical items (such as knee or ankle braces) are allowed. Placing an object as a directional aid is not allowed. An item such as a towel or a pad may be placed on the lie as long as it is not greater than one centimeter in thickness when compressed.
B. A device that is questioned by another player or an Official is illegal unless it is subsequently approved by the Director.
C. A player receives two penalty throws if observed at any time during a round to be using an illegal device. A player who repeatedly uses an illegal device may be subject to disqualification in accordance with Section 3.03 of the PDGA Competition Manual.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rocthecourse View Post
It would seem to me the towel would be legal, but for the mini it would depend. If someone called it then it would be illegal at least until you talk to the TD.

Hopefully someone who is more knowledgeable of the rules will chime in on this.
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Originally Posted by Davei View Post
The tee is your lie. You can't put anything in front of your lie.
Quote:
Originally Posted by robdeforge View Post
where does it say that?
Quote:
Originally Posted by BogeyNoMore View Post
Uli was making a case for using a mini as a directional aid, citing Lisa Fajkus' penalty... hence illegal. I suppose you could use a mini as a directional aid, in which case, I suppose it would be illegal.

But I wouldn't say Jerm's use of it there was directional. Although he was allowed to use the entire tee as a lie, he chose to mark his lie farther back on the line of play, specifically to avoid the dip at the front of the tee.

I don't see how that particular use of a mini is any different than standard use of a mini.
He just chose to move farther from the basket along the LOP.

I would've have taken this discussion over to the rules forum, to avoid derailing this thread. It's just too big a pain in the butt to do it on my phone.
Quote:
Originally Posted by McCready View Post
Jerm was being a bit dramatic imo. There’s a depression at the front of the teepad, so just take one more step back before throwing. The towel is unnecessary.
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Old 09-03-2020, 05:42 PM
Karl Karl is offline
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MY logic (although I'd be willing to ameliorate my stance if "better logic" was to come forth) would be to allow the mini to be placed on the tee...but the player would then HAVE to 'hit their mark' (delineated by said mini) while throwing from that tee. Otherwise it COULD be a directional marker, etc.
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Old 09-03-2020, 06:13 PM
robdeforge robdeforge is offline
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I would think it's pretty clear that "directional aid" means aiding in the direction of a thrown disc, i.e. what lisa fajkus did. placing a mini on the teepad is not aiding in that way.

would be curious to see if the rules committee feels differently

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Old 09-03-2020, 08:17 PM
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TheOtherBill TheOtherBill is offline
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Can someone explain in detail the 'Fajkus Incident'? Was it something about her bag in front of her lie? How is that a directional aid?
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Old 09-03-2020, 08:51 PM
robdeforge robdeforge is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOtherBill View Post
Can someone explain in detail the 'Fajkus Incident'? Was it something about her bag in front of her lie? How is that a directional aid?
https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forum...&postcount=248

not sure if there is more detail than that out there

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Old 09-04-2020, 12:35 AM
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BrotherDave BrotherDave is offline
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I thought this looked familiar. We didn't seem to come to much consensus on this in my stupid related thread: https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forum...light=mini+tee

I've actually played with a guy that did something similar to this. He was red/green colorblind and on tees that were just spray painted lines on grass, he would put a disc down at the edge so he could tell where the tee ended so he wouldn't foot fault. So there's another wrinkle to this vague rule interpretation.
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Old 09-04-2020, 02:50 AM
txmxer txmxer is offline
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The issue is an unfair advantage. It’s a dumb penalty and I think one could easily argue the front of the tee box is the line and Tee box throws are unique because you can throw from anywhere behind the line where as shots after that are much more explicit about foot placement of a throw.

Regardless, Jerm can figure out where to put his foot without the mini and it’s a non-issue.
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Old 09-04-2020, 03:13 AM
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BogeyNoMore BogeyNoMore is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrotherDave View Post
I thought this looked familiar. We didn't seem to come to much consensus on this in my stupid related thread: https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forum...light=mini+tee

I've actually played with a guy that did something similar to this. He was red/green colorblind and on tees that were just spray painted lines on grass, he would put a disc down at the edge so he could tell where the tee ended so he wouldn't foot fault. So there's another wrinkle to this vague rule interpretation.
I think the distinction would be whether:

A) the mini is being used as a directional aid to assist the player as to where they want to throw (illegal).

B) establishing a lie that the player would be allowed to legally throw from anyway (legal).

It's simply being used to say "release the disc from here," ...which is a mini's reason for being in the first place.

1) Should it matter if you're using it in the fairway or on the tee?

2) If it's illegal to use on a tee shot because it's "a directional aid," why wouldn't it be an illegal directional aid on the rest of the course?

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Old 09-04-2020, 03:30 AM
Jugular Jugular is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BogeyNoMore View Post
I think the distinction would be whether:

A) the mini is being used as a directional aid to assist the player as to where they want to throw (illegal).

B) establishing a lie that the player would be allowed to legally throw from anyway (legal).

It's simply being used to say "release the disc from here," ...which is a mini's reason for being in the first place.

1) Should it matter if you're using it in the fairway or on the tee?

2) If it's illegal to use on a tee shot because it's "a directional aid," why wouldn't it be an illegal directional aid on the rest of the course?
Nicely put BNM, I think this might be a nice QnA in the rulebook if its ever clarified which is legal, it seems to me it should be legal for this purpose.
As a hypothetical, if I had a mini made/printed with some lines on it representing how far my typical hyzer hyzers from right to left on flat ground and I placed the mini otherwise legally but in such a way that those lines had meaning to me, that would be a directional aid, right? And therefore illegal, so if I made that known rather than it just being part of a pretty pattern on my disc I could be penalised?
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  #10  
Old 09-04-2020, 03:38 AM
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Meillo Meillo is offline
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How can anything be a directional aid if it's right where you throw? For aiding your direction it needs to be away from you. To me it doesn't make sense to talk about directional aid in this case.

Putting the towel down is legal. That's easy. It shouldn't matter if you step on the towel or not. As it is right where you are, it cannot aid your direction.

The mini has a special purpose in disc golf, i.e. marking your lie. The questions are if you can use it in any other ways (as an auxilliary item) or if you could mark something on an already established lie (the teebox). I don't know the reasons well enough, but would rather say no.

Interesting is if I could place or not brush away loose leaves and twigs on the teepad but don't step on them.
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