#1  
Old 06-12-2009, 03:44 PM
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Greg Layton Greg Layton is offline
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Default A couple of thoughts on 5 star reviews

Rating inflation is running rampant; nearly everytime I log on I see two or three 5 star reviews on the front page. I'm sure most of these courses are great, but 5 stars should be pretty damn special.

Quote:
Remember, a "5" is considered the ultimate. There is absolutely nothing that could be done to improve the course. It is perfect in every possible way.
Also, I'm sick and tired of reading three sentence 5 star reviews. If you are passionate enough about a course to give it 5 stars you should be able to write more than three sentences about it. And don't give me that "everyone else has already said all that can be said" crap. Forget their reviews and describe your experience in your own words. I know everyone here isn't an English major, but if you can find your way to this website you should be capable of writing rational sentences.

Here's what I propose to fix the problem:

#1 - If you rate a course 5 stars, there needs to be some sort of character minimum in your review. Maybe 1,000 letters or or a couple of hundred words, something along those lines.

#2 - If this is your first review, you can not rate a course 5 stars.

#3 - If haven't marked any courses as played (other than the course you are reviewing), you can not rate a course 5 stars.

I suppose there are ways around all three of those rules, but they'd help deter drive-by homeboyism.

As a sidenote, Timg, is there any way to see the overall average of all courses from 6/12/08, 12/12/08, and 6/12/09? I'd bet money that it's gone up at least one or two tenths of a point in that timeframe. Some of that is due to people naturally seeking out better courses to play and review, but a good chunk of it is also people over-rating their home course/area/state with little to no frame of reference.

***To be clear, this is by no way a condemnation of 5 star reviews currently on the front page... although a couple of them are questionable. I'm looking at the overall picture here.***

/rant
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  #2  
Old 06-12-2009, 04:30 PM
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Dave242 Dave242 is offline
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There is not a single 5 star rated review on this site.

Maybe some people's motivation is to bump the average score up on the ratings on a favorite course of theirs that they feel is graded too low. Their 5 disc rating will bump up the average a bunch if there are only 1-4 other reviews, but it is insignificant once there are over around 5-10 reviews.

oh - I've rethought my first comment......just maybe you do have a point and there are 5 disc ratings and the discs are all made of Star(tm) plastic.
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Old 06-12-2009, 04:31 PM
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milow369 milow369 is offline
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The problem is you are looking for a scientific outcome from data entered with no scientific criteria, or worse, data entered by people off the internet.

Unless and until voting is locked down to a few trusted individuals who have played courses across the country in every state, who are bound by rigid voting criteria, the rating system will only be a ballpark suggestion, sort of like movie reviews. Even in the scenario I just described you may not agree with a reviewer who pans your course for whatever reason. Save yourself the grief man.

The good news about the DCGR ratings is that it gets people like me (have played in a couple/few different states for about 8 years or so) to consider vacations to places like Michigan, or Kentucky or Oregon or Massachusetts when we would otherwise not.

I appreciate your thinking outside of the box when it comes to making clean output from dirty data but that's not the answer. Maybe I could type "word" 1000 times then rank 5. What if I did just play Flip City, have never had the inclination to rate a course but felt compelled to rank the course because it "spoke to me". I should be able to rank it a 5 if it so deserves. Ultimately, there are just too many variables when it comes to ranking a course to try and control them.

Sorry that your course is not being ranked like it should or is being diminished by others ranking their mediocre home courses up with your gem. It's just the internet. I don't know any other way to say it.

I don't want to create a pissing contest, but here's one real life situation to ponder. Picking on Flip City only because it's #1. If I am not mistaken, Shelby MI is under snow for a good portion of the year and is relatively unplayable during those months. Why should this course be rated a 5/5 when it can not be played all year round?

(This is probably #1 on my favorites list and I think the pictures are amazing - please save your hate mail, I am just trying to make a point)

Anyway, pack to the key point of this response. "Save yourself the grief man"
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Old 06-12-2009, 04:36 PM
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srm_520 srm_520 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave242 View Post
There is not a single 5 star rated review on this site.

Maybe some people's motivation is to bump the average score up on the ratings on a favorite course of theirs that they feel is graded too low. Their 5 disc rating will bump up the average a bunch if there are only 1-4 other reviews, but it is insignificant once there are over around 5-10 reviews.

oh - I've rethought my first comment......just maybe you do have a point and there are 5 disc ratings and the discs are all made of Star(tm) plastic.
There are plenty of individual five star ratings given, just not a cumulative score. I have only given one five star rating of the 30 I have reviewed. It was to Harry Myers - (http://www.dgcoursereview.com/review...d&tronly=false) in Dallas, and I still wonder if it should be reassessed as 4.5 as I get more courses under my belt.
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Old 06-12-2009, 04:38 PM
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Greg Layton Greg Layton is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by milow369 View Post
Anyway, pack to the key point of this response. "Save yourself the grief man"
Thanks for the thoughtful response, milow. I guess you're right, trying to put any sort of controls on what the internet does, based on subjective means, is an excercise in futilitiy. It doesn't hurt to open up the subject to discussion one in a while, though.

Also, for the record, I don't have a horse in the race... I just want to see DGCR be as accurate as possible. Even though I have Michigan as my avatar, Flip City isn't even the best course I've played, let alone the best in the U.S. But, then again, that's just my subjective opinion.
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Old 06-12-2009, 04:47 PM
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ERicJ ERicJ is offline
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Personally, I'm in complete agreement with both Greg & Millow's sentiments. The flagrant five-star rating disgusts me. It muddies our precious data. It highlights jackhole reviewers who have no concept of the full range of courses that exist. I've got over 65+ reviews written some of them on damn fine courses and still haven't doled out a five-star rating yet.

On the other hand millow is right in that the internet is filled with jackholes. Take for example the 1,479 jackholes (as of this writing) who gave Gigli a 10 (out of 10) star rating. Clearly there is no appreciation or comprehension of cinema among them.

There have been disucssions before on this forum of ways to limit Home Boy Bias, but nothing that really solves the problem in an efficient and mostly fool-proof way has been pitched yet.

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Old 06-12-2009, 05:15 PM
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milow369 milow369 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Layton View Post
Thanks for the thoughtful response, milow. I guess you're right, trying to put any sort of controls on what the internet does, based on subjective means, is an excercise in futilitiy. It doesn't hurt to open up the subject to discussion one in a while, though.

Also, for the record, I don't have a horse in the race... I just want to see DGCR be as accurate as possible. Even though I have Michigan as my avatar, Flip City isn't even the best course I've played, let alone the best in the U.S. But, then again, that's just my subjective opinion.
The main reason I replied is because "I feel your pain", no other agenda. Full disclosure, my favorite course in the world is DeLaveaga, Santa Cruz. It is my only 5 star rating thus far. I realize that many would not rate it a 5. Thinking about it, many of the signs have graffiti, the parking situation can be problematic, etc. but all in all, it's my dg mecca, 27 or 28 holes of paradise.

As flawed as the DG rating system is, it still is effective. I never (NEVER) would have ever considered a vacation to Michigan or the surrounding KY/Cincinnati areas, but I am in fact dreaming up a fantasy disc golf week and those places are in the running. So, for that reason, the ranking system on this website is very useful to me. I also read through the course rater's descriptions and I can pick and choose which are helpful and which are not in making my decisions. While I may not agree with everyone about what constitutes a 5 star course, when I see that several people have rated a course such it gets my attention.

Anyway, get out and hit chains, Peace
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Old 06-12-2009, 05:17 PM
biscoe biscoe is offline
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i haven't written nearly the number of reviews i should have at this point but i have never played a 5 star course in 14 years of playing. the ones i've played with the best selections of holes lack some amenity or another and the ones with the amenities have had lesser caliber of holes.
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Old 06-12-2009, 05:18 PM
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Let's look at how an aberant 5 rating will effect the course rating average both when there are 5 reviews and 10 reviews:

1+1+1+1+1 -- 1.0 disc
1+1+1+1+5 -- 1.5 discs
1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1 -- 1.0 disc
1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+5 -- 1.5 discs

3+3+3+3+3 -- 3.0 discs
3+3+3+3+5 -- 3.5 discs
3+3+3+3+3+3+3+3+3+3 -- 3.0 discs
3+3+3+3+3+3+3+3+3+5 -- 3.0 discs

4+4+4+4+4 -- 4.0 discs
4+4+4+4+5 -- 4.0 discs
4+4+4+4+4+4+4+4+4+4 -- 4.0 discs
4+4+4+4+4+4+4+4+4+5 -- 4.0 discs

As you see the most 1 HBB 5 vote will effect the overall score is 0.5 discs. For decent-good courses 1 HBB 5 vote will make no difference.
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Old 06-12-2009, 05:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by biscoe View Post
i haven't written nearly the number of reviews i should have at this point but i have never played a 5 star course in 14 years of playing. the ones i've played with the best selections of holes lack some amenity or another and the ones with the amenities have had lesser caliber of holes.
then lower your standards a little! I have heard plenty of 5 disc worthy comments about your course....even if you have to count cow pies as ammenities! Eventually I need to get up there for VTI....even as a spectator.
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