#561  
Old 08-30-2019, 07:40 PM
zontar zontar is offline
Eagle Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: lincoln ne
Courses Played: 53
Posts: 712
Niced 320 Times in 191 Posts
Default

sounds to me like she's kicking a$$ because she putts 86%, not because she's transitioned.
Sponsored Links

Niced: (1)
Reply With Quote
  #562  
Old 08-30-2019, 07:54 PM
gingerandhoney gingerandhoney is offline
Par Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: utrecht, nl
Years Playing: 9.2
Courses Played: 67
Throwing Style: LHBH
Posts: 202
Niced 157 Times in 70 Posts
Default

Life is a slippery slope, yes, but we're not here for philosophy 101.
People are arguing that a transgender woman should not play in gender-protected divisions for instance because they supposedly have broader shoulders.

Let's assume mine are 1'8" wide, and you state that a transgender woman's shoulder should be no wider than 1'7", then you would disqualify me from playing in gender-protected divisions, but as a result, you would also need to disqualify a cisgender woman whose shoulders are 1'8" wide as well. That rule would need to either go for all, or none. You can't cherry pick which people among a gorup it applies to and which not. And then, you're always dealing with those openly transgender women.
What about those who are not open about it? How do you police them?
Do you know if there are any?
If so, have they won anything noteworthy?
Are their physical traits such that they would stand out, and would they hold certain physical advantages?

In your (plural, not you personally) imagination, transgender women are 6ft tall, weigh 200lb, have 6'4" wingspan, have sixpacks, wear men's XL gloves, etc...
What if the next transgender woman you meet is tinier than Paige Pierce is?!?!
Reply With Quote
  #563  
Old 08-30-2019, 08:20 PM
Hampstead's Avatar
Hampstead Hampstead is online now
* Ace Member *
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Spaceship Earth
Years Playing: 29.5
Courses Played: 64
Throwing Style: LHBH
Posts: 3,167
Niced 1,425 Times in 477 Posts
Default

I find it interesting that some folks need to have some imaginary needle moved for them personally as though their opinion is what ultimately decides these things.

Niced: (2)
Reply With Quote
  #564  
Old 08-31-2019, 11:41 PM
DG_player DG_player is offline
Eagle Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 549
Niced 153 Times in 104 Posts
Default

@GingerandHoney:

How much have your round ratings changed from pre- to post- transition?
Reply With Quote
  #565  
Old 09-01-2019, 12:50 PM
zgmc's Avatar
zgmc zgmc is offline
Eagle Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Michigan
Years Playing: 17.4
Courses Played: 29
Throwing Style: RHBH
Posts: 820
Niced 132 Times in 70 Posts
Default

This is fun. Dave made a pretty good post and the meat and potatoes of it was ignored.
Reply With Quote
  #566  
Old 09-01-2019, 02:13 PM
Halcón's Avatar
Halcón Halcón is online now
Free at Last
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Years Playing: 8.5
Courses Played: 1
Throwing Style: RHBH
Posts: 11,983
Niced 1,170 Times in 593 Posts
Default

Side A of gender debate: It doesn't matter what you say, this is how it is.

Side B of gender debate: It doesn't matter what you say, this is how it is.

And around and around we go.

Reply With Quote
  #567  
Old 09-01-2019, 02:53 PM
gingerandhoney gingerandhoney is offline
Par Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: utrecht, nl
Years Playing: 9.2
Courses Played: 67
Throwing Style: LHBH
Posts: 202
Niced 157 Times in 70 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DG_player View Post
@GingerandHoney:

How much have your round ratings changed from pre- to post- transition?
See https://www.pdga.com/player/44969/history
In the last 12 months before transitioning, I averaged 900.

I've averaged 880 since I started transitioning (late aug '16).

I've averaged 877 since I started taking hormones (14dec17).
Reply With Quote
  #568  
Old 09-01-2019, 03:04 PM
gingerandhoney gingerandhoney is offline
Par Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: utrecht, nl
Years Playing: 9.2
Courses Played: 67
Throwing Style: LHBH
Posts: 202
Niced 157 Times in 70 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidSauls View Post
This strikes me as a straw man. As best I've seen, nobody has argued that all trans-women will have those advantages, over all other women.

On average, men have certain physical advantages over women. Not all, of course; there are women who are taller and have longer limbs than, say, me. But on average, men have physical advantages, which is why we have a protected division.

The variations in individuals don't matter.

Take 1000 men and 1000 women, the averages favor the men. Transition those 1000 men, and some of those advantages still apply.

Your argument should be that the advantages that may still apply are vastly outweighed by the advantages that will no longer apply (testosterone, muscle mass), to the degree that the female-protected divisions are appropriate.

I don't know if that's true or not, but that should be the argument. I gather it's a winning argument with the IOC and many other sports.
Thank you Dave, for that. It's been my argument all along.

The 'average x vs average y holds up as long as you do not look at specific individuals.
That's the comfort AND the danger of looking at average values.


The testosterone dropping - at least according to the ones who actually researched it, and especially the ones making these rules - all say that it outwieghs the possible physical advantages.
Only since people specifically started hammering down topics like shoulder, limb, etc, after the 'testosterone dropping is crucial', I started pointing out the invalid logic behind looking at a certain specific physical trait, by pointing out that in the tiniest of control groups (women's FA40 semi-finals) the theory in itself doesn't hold up.
Knowing full well, that I am not an average man, nor an average woman, nor an average transgender woman. I am Laura, and I beat the competition at AmWorlds.

You (plural) say that is because I am a transgender woman, and that I have male advantages.
I say that I played better than my competition (most notably my putting).
Reply With Quote
  #569  
Old 09-01-2019, 03:06 PM
gingerandhoney gingerandhoney is offline
Par Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: utrecht, nl
Years Playing: 9.2
Courses Played: 67
Throwing Style: LHBH
Posts: 202
Niced 157 Times in 70 Posts
Default

FYI: I turned Pro today.
I accepted my payout of eur20 (about $22).
First time I ever got on the good side of the payout line (I never declined cash).

Reply With Quote
 

  #570  
Old 09-01-2019, 11:06 PM
Three Putt's Avatar
Three Putt Three Putt is offline
*Super Moderator*
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Rolla, MO.
Years Playing: 24.8
Courses Played: 135
Throwing Style: RHBH
Posts: 9,120
Niced 2,279 Times in 864 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by zgmc View Post
This is fun. Dave made a pretty good post and the meat and potatoes of it was ignored.
GingerandHoney had a really long post I didn't read after the really long post Dave wrote that I didn't read. I assumed the one really long post was in answer the the other really long post. :shrugs:

Niced: (1)
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
World Champion Paige Bjerkaas WITB 2019 SD86 Discs 13 05-10-2019 12:10 PM
2019 Bowling Green Amateur Championships tnmotorman Tournaments & Leagues 18 04-23-2019 08:57 AM
2019 PDGA Amateur Disc Golf World Championships Darkgreen Tournaments & Leagues 25 12-13-2017 04:44 PM
2010 Amateur World Championships SmoothSailor General Disc Golf Chat 12 07-10-2010 09:29 AM
2010 Amateur World Championships SmoothSailor Vacations & Road Trips 0 06-17-2010 12:37 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:57 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.10
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.