#11  
Old 09-02-2019, 03:49 PM
mopar mopar is offline
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I agree with that 100%. Casual players rarely play OB...I feel the same way about mandos. Casual players just don't follow them. I cringe when I see public courses designed with mandos for safety reasons...

That being said, it doesn't hurt to have the OB marked on the teesign as long as it is understood that it won't normally be followed by the public.
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Last edited by mopar; 09-02-2019 at 03:53 PM.
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  #12  
Old 09-02-2019, 03:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Three Putt View Post
Get ready to disagree with me: I really think OB is mostly a tournament setup thing and really should be avoided for the most part in regular course design.

I know this is not the pervading logic as there seems to be some sort of thrill for people to throw over water, but all of those "throw over or beside a lake" holes I know of have diver problem with the land owners not being happy about folks jumping in the lake to search for discs. It's an actual liability issue.

The other factor is that casual players just don't obey it. OB creek? Whatever, just throw from there. The creek for casual play is just a factor of how hard it is to throw out of, not so much that it is technically OB.

Really when you rely on OB in the course design it's only going to effect tournament rounds or rounds played by guys expecting to play in a tournament round. Everybody else is going to ignore it. I think it can be something that tournament layouts can use, but if the basic course design is dependent on it the basic course design is going to be lost on most people who play it.
I see your point.
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Old 09-02-2019, 03:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mopar View Post
I agree with that 100%. Casual players rarely play OB...I feel the same way about mandos. Casual players just don't follow them. I cringe when I see public courses designed with mandos for safety reasons...

That being said, it doesn't hurt to have the OB marked on the teesign as long as it is understood that it won't normally be followed by the public.
Yeah, I'm not anti-OB as it does work for competitive rounds. You just have to be realistic about the fact that casual players are going to ignore it and what that does to what you are trying to accomplish with the OB.

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Old 09-02-2019, 04:02 PM
mopar mopar is offline
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Sure, that seems like common sense.
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Old 09-02-2019, 04:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Three Putt View Post
I guess I can't wrap my head around ponds so small that several could dot a disc golf fairway. So I can't imagine that type of hole in my head. Sorry.
Yeah. A lot of small ponds seems more like a situation for casual relief than OB.
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Old 09-02-2019, 04:47 PM
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Let’s think back to the point of OB rules.
OB water: players often aren’t willing/able to throw from the pond/lake.
OB rough/dropoff: keep play moving and a bit of “mercy rule” so players aren’t taking 3 throws to get out of the nasty and delaying the card/getting frustrated.
OB paths/roads/other fairways: player/spectator/non-participant safety.
Anything other than these and you’re just artificially making difficulty.
Not saying that other OB schemes can’t work, for example my home course has a hole with artificial OB surrounding islands, which you could call gimmicky but since it’s just one hole it plays well. I’m not saying that artificial and sand bunker/pond OBs can’t work, just that IMHO it needs to be done carefully and in moderation.
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Old 09-02-2019, 04:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Three Putt View Post
Get ready to disagree with me: I really think OB is mostly a tournament setup thing and really should be avoided for the most part in regular course design.

I know this is not the pervading logic as there seems to be some sort of thrill for people to throw over water, but all of those "throw over or beside a lake" holes I know of have diver problem with the land owners not being happy about folks jumping in the lake to search for discs. It's an actual liability issue.

The other factor is that casual players just don't obey it. OB creek? Whatever, just throw from there. The creek for casual play is just a factor of how hard it is to throw out of, not so much that it is technically OB.

Really when you rely on OB in the course design it's only going to effect tournament rounds or rounds played by guys expecting to play in a tournament round. Everybody else is going to ignore it. I think it can be something that tournament layouts can use, but if the basic course design is dependent on it the basic course design is going to be lost on most people who play it.
This. I like to say “any hazard is a casual hazard if you’re brave enough”.
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Old 09-02-2019, 05:11 PM
mopar mopar is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R-Ogre View Post
OB paths/roads/other fairways: player/spectator/non-participant safety.
I understand that is coming from a tournament pov (which is one of the issues with the rules of our sport being in its infancy) but from a public course design standpoint I disagree.

If there is a known safety concern, designing in a way that OB or mandos etc. are the mitigating factor is poor design. Again, your standard casual player doesn't follow things like OB or mandos.

This is a major issue that I see repeatedly.

Also, it should be noted that the quote leaves out other possible reasons for course design utilizing OB. An easy one being resource management, erosion control etc. It can be used in a way to minimize the number of users impacting an area.

Last edited by mopar; 09-02-2019 at 05:13 PM.
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Old 09-02-2019, 05:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mopar View Post
I understand that is coming from a tournament pov (which is one of the issues with the rules of our sport being in its infancy) but from a public course design standpoint I disagree.

If there is a known safety concern, designing in a way that OB or mandos etc. are the mitigating factor is poor design. Again, your standard casual player doesn't follow things like OB or mandos.

This is a major issue that I see repeatedly.

Also, it should be noted that the quote leaves out other possible reasons for course design utilizing OB. An easy one being resource management, erosion control etc. It can be used in a way to minimize the number of users impacting an area.
Even the most casual groups I’ve played with always followed mandos. But fair enough on OB. Then again, there’s what would be nice (nothing else near the course) and what happens with reality (you’re always going to have a parking lot and a driveway somewhere on premises, and sometimes a road/sidewalk/ball field). Lots of courses aren’t out in the boonies on dedicated disc golf property and I for one am thankful for that.

It goes back to what I was trying to say in the beginning-usually OB should have a reason, but artificial OB used sparingly has its place. You’re a golfer. You get it yeah?
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  #20  
Old 09-02-2019, 05:57 PM
mopar mopar is offline
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There is land that doesn't lend itself well to a course, safety reasons being the number one concern

That ^ being said, a good designer can usually design in a way that removes the major safety concerns but sometimes that is not possible.

We have all seen courses to close to parking lots or playgrounds or heavy use areas.

Imho it is important that a course is designed safely or it shouldn't be installed at all.
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