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Old 09-18-2019, 12:02 PM
slowplastic slowplastic is offline
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I also like to test discs out in a mild like 5 MPH headwind to see how I can trust them. That gives me a good indication of if they will stay straight when they beat in, or if they actually are on the verge of turning when I normally throw them, and any extra torque or wind or some wear and tear will make them start to act understable.

The best discs IMO hold straight no matter if I power them down a bit or hit them hard, yet don't flip if there's a slight wind. Teebirds for example can handle all these factors which is why I think they are so good...although some of them are very overstable for Teebirds and they are more like an Eagle or mini-Firebird, I'm not meaning that type for myself.

The TL I also think is a great disc and underappreciated, but they definitely have less HSS than the Teebird and you'll see that if you throw them into a bit of wind or have high arm speed.
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Old 09-18-2019, 03:03 PM
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Meillo Meillo is offline
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Originally Posted by Twmccoy View Post
Throwing into a headwind, I'm going with something that has at least a 2 for fade. The wind will naturally help a disc turn. If you have no late fade, the disc will never come back.

In other words, any Teebird I have with 0 or 1 for fade won't be thrown into a headwind.

In a perfect world I'd probably throw a 3 fade disc into a headwind.
I think one should look at turn and fade separately, at least for understanding.

IMO turn should rather be seen from the other side, as High Speed Stability (HSS), i.e. the resistance to turn. 0 turn means that the disc has big HSS and thus resists turn strongly. It fights against turn no matter what speed (relative to the surrounding air) you throw it. The lower the turn resistance, the sooner it gives in and turns. A disc like a Teebird has a strong HSS, it'll fly straight in the high-speed part of its flight, no matter how fast you throw it (at least in normal human range). A disc with less HSS (i.e. negative turn number), like a Valkyrie, Eagle, Roadrunner will turn more or less, depending on how fast you throw it. All of this has nothing to do with fade.

Fade is how strong it comes back when it slows down. (I like to call it Low Speed Fade (LSF).) Independent of a disc's resistance to turn, it can have different amounts of low speed fade. When you play into headwinds, you'll always want to have a disc with a strong fade, because a dependable fade ensures that it'll come back, preventing a ``turn and burn''. It's a safety net. Fade limits the amount the disc can turn, because if it flies high enough, it has enough time to slow down for the low speed fade to set in and bring the disc back. If you have a lot of turn, it does not matter if the disc turned a bit or a bit more or even more. This is why an Eagle (-1/3) works in the wind: The strong fade will bring it back, even if it has turned. A Valkyrie (-2/2) is much less reliable, as it both, gives in quicker to turning and has less fade to come back.

In disc design, HSS and LSF are somehow connected, not fully but partly (see Roc/Cobra or Teebird/Eagle). To understand what's going on, I think it helps to look at both of them separately. If your disc resists turn well, you won't need that much fade. I think this is great, because such a disc, flies pretty similar in all kinds of wind conditions. This is the reason I like the Teebird.

Compare the flight paths on the Innova website for the difference between beginner and advanced, this is like the difference between tailwind and headwind:
See the Teebird to fly just the same, only different distances, whereas the Valkyrie flies much different (landing left or right), even more so for something like a Roadrunner.

Well, I'm a bit much into the details here. The easy answer is: Into headwinds, use discs with close to zero turn and big fade.

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