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Old 09-15-2018, 12:24 PM
Discusted Discusted is offline
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Default Wait... Do we pull into the Left Chest or Right Chest?

So I was just watching some slow mo disc golf drives to help me with a problem I noticed in the field yesterday. My issue was that sometimes I'd not get into the bent elbow power pocket position. Seems as I come in from the reachback I sometimes miss getting that elbow bent and end up just throwing with a slightly bent at the elbow arm. So watching the slow motion drives video of pros I noticed that when they do the "wide-narrow-wide" pull through, it seems like it gets "narrow" and the elbow gets bent when the Disc is at the LEFT chest (or before). I've always tried to get my disc close to the RIGHT chest (probably because my understanding of the power pocket comes from the Beato Drill). See what I mean here:

So at exactly 11s here:
https://youtu.be/GfjiaZ9DvXQ?t=11s

You see that the elbow is bent, and the Disc's path is already at the "narrow" part of "wide-narrow-wide" while the Disc is at the Left Chest. From here the body continues to rotate bringing the Disc to the Right Chest, and then the elbow looks like it unhinges from there. This makes it seem to me that from reachback, I should be pull into my LEFT chest. Am I thinking about this right?

Oh you can also see what I'm talking about in this GIF here:

Looks like the Disc's path has narrowed/pulled into left chest, before hitting the right chest power pocket.
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Last edited by Discusted; 09-15-2018 at 12:29 PM.
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Old 09-15-2018, 12:47 PM
slowplastic slowplastic is offline
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I would say this is a case of feel ain't real...if you pull toward your right chest you get to that position as your torso gets out of the way. If you pull toward your left chest when you're at max backswing you'll pull at your torso/spine and get jammed up. Experiment with the feel from your perspective.

Just don't bounce the disc off your left chest, that's the worst.

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Old 09-15-2018, 01:19 PM
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...

Just don't bounce the disc off your left chest, that's the worst.
And how does one prevent this? Asking for a friend.
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Old 09-15-2018, 01:28 PM
slowplastic slowplastic is offline
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And how does one prevent this? Asking for a friend.
I find it happens more often if I drift right to left on the teepad, it puts my body in the way of the shot so the disc tries to go "through" me. Also if I do too fast of an X-step for my skills, then I can't keep my torso and upper arm "tight enough" or with me, so they lag behind and the disc does crazy things.

Basically the better your balance the disc should have room to swing it seems.
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Old 09-15-2018, 01:47 PM
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Originally Posted by slowplastic View Post
I would say this is a case of feel ain't real...if you pull toward your right chest you get to that position as your torso gets out of the way. If you pull toward your left chest when you're at max backswing you'll pull at your torso/spine and get jammed up. Experiment with the feel from your perspective.

Just don't bounce the disc off your left chest, that's the worst.


I think there is truth to what SP said.

Paul is a good example of what you’re talking about, his power pocket sometimes has the disc nearly behind his left arm. This is because he uses his shoulders as an additional spring. This is why his off arm pendulums into his side before the pull.

I think this also helps widen that arc like that in the video Bradley Walker recently posted here.
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Old 09-15-2018, 02:18 PM
Discusted Discusted is offline
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Originally Posted by drk_evns View Post
I think there is truth to what SP said.

Paul is a good example of what you’re talking about, his power pocket sometimes has the disc nearly behind his left arm. This is because he uses his shoulders as an additional spring. This is why his off arm pendulums into his side before the pull.

I think this also helps widen that arc like that in the video Bradley Walker recently posted here.
Agreed especially on that last point. It seems like if you pulled into the left chest or shoulder the arc would be bigger. And the arc would be more around your head rather than in front of it. I feel like I've always pulled to the RIGHT chest, curious to see what it will do to my power and timing if I'm pulling to the LEFT chest.
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Old 09-15-2018, 02:19 PM
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Originally Posted by slowplastic View Post
I would say this is a case of feel ain't real...if you pull toward your right chest you get to that position as your torso gets out of the way. If you pull toward your left chest when you're at max backswing you'll pull at your torso/spine and get jammed up. Experiment with the feel from your perspective.

Just don't bounce the disc off your left chest, that's the worst.
Yeh I'm going to try both. Just in the living room here, it seems a LEFT chest pull will lead to a bigger arc and possibly fix some timing issues Ive been having.
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Old 09-17-2018, 03:03 AM
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I find the right pec drill creates the wrong upper body angles and leads more players down a strongarming route through misunderstanding.

The concept is to try and get as deep into the right pec whilst keeping a good angle between upper body and upper arm (the golden angle) before opening up. You do this by keeping a closed shoulder late and triceps pointing towards the target. The white lines on KJ's top in the gif above are quite good for illustrating the upper arm positions you are trying to attain (stays pointing targetwards until the disc is swinging forward in the outward arc.)

Unfortunately it's often not interpreted correctly and people try to get to the right pec by opening the shoulder early - triceps pointing 90 degrees right of target (it's easy to get to the right pec by opening your shoulder up, this is where Beto leads a lot of people down the wrong path by showing an open shoulder on the vid and then when doing the actual throw he closes his shoulder into a correct position, this happens quickly though and is hard to pick up, he shows an open shoulder in set up which is where the confusion comes from.)

Basically the deeper you can get into the pocket whilst keeping a closed shoulder the quicker your redirection will be as the lower arm is released.

If you set up with a 90 degree angle between your upper body and upper arm and then a 90 degree with your upper arm and lower arm with a disc held in place you will find a natural resting place is at about the left pec/left shoulder. This is the position I teach people to start from and then use their lower body to move away from and then back to and then through. I do this using the slalom poles things i mentioned in another thread as it helps force the positions you want to hit.

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Old 09-17-2018, 11:34 AM
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Left pec or right pec - don't matter! You technically swing inside out of your swing center or center of gravity.

Look at where the disc is here, narrow in his center of gravity and note of the disc path follows the CoG path:


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Old 09-18-2018, 01:37 AM
Discusted Discusted is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rhatton1 View Post
I find the right pec drill creates the wrong upper body angles and leads more players down a strongarming route through misunderstanding.

The concept is to try and get as deep into the right pec whilst keeping a good angle between upper body and upper arm (the golden angle) before opening up. You do this by keeping a closed shoulder late and triceps pointing towards the target. The white lines on KJ's top in the gif above are quite good for illustrating the upper arm positions you are trying to attain (stays pointing targetwards until the disc is swinging forward in the outward arc.)

Unfortunately it's often not interpreted correctly and people try to get to the right pec by opening the shoulder early - triceps pointing 90 degrees right of target (it's easy to get to the right pec by opening your shoulder up, this is where Beto leads a lot of people down the wrong path by showing an open shoulder on the vid and then when doing the actual throw he closes his shoulder into a correct position, this happens quickly though and is hard to pick up, he shows an open shoulder in set up which is where the confusion comes from.)

Basically the deeper you can get into the pocket whilst keeping a closed shoulder the quicker your redirection will be as the lower arm is released.

If you set up with a 90 degree angle between your upper body and upper arm and then a 90 degree with your upper arm and lower arm with a disc held in place you will find a natural resting place is at about the left pec/left shoulder. This is the position I teach people to start from and then use their lower body to move away from and then back to and then through. I do this using the slalom poles things i mentioned in another thread as it helps force the positions you want to hit.
Wow. Thanks for this post it clarified a lot for me. Especially the part about the Beto drill teaching people the wrong position. That was the same like me. You know how you say you teach people the starting position with a natural resting Disc position at the left pec/shoulder. My starting position throughout this whole first summer of Disc Golf was Disc at Right Chest, shoulder way open, and elbow out in front of the shoulder which I learned from the Beto Drill. I only realized this was wrong when I watched those slow mo videos in detail and made this thread and now you've confirmed for me. So thank you!


With regards to the other details of your post I do have some questions for further clarification if you don't mind.

1.
When you say Golden Angle, that's the angle between upper arm and upper body that should be 90 Degrees or more but never less, right? Like described in this article and picture here which states: "Your shoulder to upper arm angle does not change (or rather, it does not decrease!) in the throwing motion up to the point where the disc reaches the Power Pocket, with elbow closed to less than 90 degrees, and with the elbow high, and on the POP. (Middle image below)"

Source: https://www.vorticasport.com/single-...ssic-Low-Elbow

So I have some questions about this Golden Angle if that's what you are referring to. In the Slow Motion Pro Driving Comparison video in my OP, @11s it looks like the upper arm to upper body angle has collapsed to like 60 degress. Or am I just seeing it wrong?
See here: https://youtu.be/GfjiaZ9DvXQ?t=11s

2.
On the subject of where the Triceps are pointing, I totally understand what you are saying here. Closed shoulder - Triceps point towards target. Open and they point right. Now to get as Deep as possible into the pocket, is there a technique for this? What I mean is that sometimes when I'm going into my throwing motion it seems like I can't quite get my elbow bent fast enough or with good enough timing to create that 90 degree upper arm to lower arm angle. In my head and practicing in my room, I'm thinking maybe I have to make my elbow joint "dingly" and "loose" so as I rotate my body (with a locked closed shoulder angle) the elbow joint naturally closes toward the chest. Am I on the right track here? Or is it some sort of controlled/forced movement using a Bicep flex to get it to that position?


3.
Now once you are in the power pocket, assuming I've gotten there correctly. To exit the power pocket and enter the arm arc of the throw, what is the sequence of muscles used here to create the most powerful arc? I can see a couple ways this can be done. For example, I could open the shoulder first (triceps pointing right), then pump my triceps to whip out the lower arm. OR for example I could open the shoulder at the exact same time I pump my triceps to whip out the lower arm. Or I could pump my Triceps first then open the shoulder. Whats the correct sequence? The whole advice about elbowing down a door points to open shoulder first, then whip the lower arm out... But I just want to make sure.

Last edited by Discusted; 09-18-2018 at 01:42 AM.
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