#121  
Old 06-30-2019, 12:29 PM
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This video talks about Griffey doing this in his swing. He incorrectly states that Griffey PUSHES his hands back, when in fact, he's just trying to KEEP his hands back. But it's the same result. His hands stay behind, his upper body gets coiled up and then releases late through the hit point and he smashes the ball with what looks to be little effort.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2D3dd3Sa3Z4
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  #122  
Old 06-30-2019, 12:34 PM
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Have you played around with the Door Frame Drills and Inside Swing Drill?

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  #123  
Old 06-30-2019, 01:44 PM
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Yes! This video makes a lot more sense to me now, haha. Thanks!

I think I've watched this before, but didn't really understand it or make much of it. But now that I've seen this idea happening in front me, in person, and I'm making the connection of what I saw to how similar it is to a baseball swing, this video is helping the whole idea become much more concrete in my mind.

A lot of your videos are not super straight forward or easy to understand if you're a beginner. To you and other good throwers, they are very simple to understand. But to us beginners who feel like all of these ideas are a big tornado of concepts swirling around out there, and we're trying to put them all into an organized linear manner, they don't seem as easy to understand. I'll watch a lot of your videos and others, and I do understand some or all of the ideas, but it just doesn't "add up" or fall in line until later. Until AFTER you make some connection on your own or do it in the field. It's so weird.

They're like slow burners, haha. The more you start to understand things on your own, the more your videos start to make all sorts of sense. Which I already knew they were chock full of great info, but it's so funny when it happens. I have no idea why it's so hard to understand them completely until later on. You feel stupid and can't understand how it wasn't so obviously clear before. But thanks. I really need to work on this idea of working around the disc and keeping it away from me and delaying my turn until pretty late. Especially for me. I have a feeling it will really help me create more of a heavy feeling in my arm or the disc from the later turn back while my weight is moving forward. Thanks man

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  #124  
Old 07-03-2019, 03:36 PM
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But I still don't have an answer to my previous questions. This one: follow up question after re-reading this for the 10th time to try to understand. Is the stride forward with the plant leg, just like falling over? Meaning, your spine and body is tilted toward the target / and then gravity just pulls your leg forward, because if you don't let your foot/leg plant, you'll just fall sideways onto the ground? Or is the plant leg getting pushed forward by the back leg at the point of the crossover? It looks like when I watch Simon, that he is mostly (like 80-90%) using gravity to let it pull his plant leg forward. Not PUSH it forward with his rear leg. Like his momentum going forward at that point is what causes his legs and weight to move forward, and only a little of his left foot is pushing him forward.

How much of his movement forward at the point of his feet crossing over is momentum from his run up, and how much is from his back foot pushing off? Percentage wise? Not sure if my momentum moving forward should be all I need, or do I still actively need to push off of my instep of my back left foot while just past the point of the crossover? Also, if you look at his hips and the tilt they are at, it seems as if he is really leaning forward / with his lower body during the portion of the throw when he's moving into his plant foot from the crossover, and it's only because his upper body is reaching back, that his whole body doesn't look like it will fall over. Like if he wasn't reaching back, his whole body would be tilting forward like this / towards the target. Like the Hershiser pitching drill. They are near the wall, then get into their cocked and ready position, and then need to lead with their hips and fall forward into the wall, THEN let their plant leg swing forward and catch their weight at the last second, thus rocketing their arm like a trebuchet forward at the last second. Is it the same feeling and idea in disc golf? It's so hard to tell. Some people look like they are definitely slamming their weight into their plant, while others look more like they are gently placing their plant leg down and shifting their weight forward. Is it one or the other, or a little of both? And why? Thanks

This video in particular is what I usually reference when I talk about Simon's throwing
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=
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  #125  
Old 07-03-2019, 10:38 PM
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You got it. It's the hershyzer.



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  #126  
Old 07-09-2019, 04:10 PM
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So I got some time to go out last night and throw. Warmed up with my std hammer and sledge throws for about 5 mins to get that feeling ingrained. Then 32 throws from a complete stand still with putters and mids only. Then 32 throws with a step forward with mids and fw's. Then 64 X step throws with some mids, fw's and my 2 control speed 9 drivers. This is only my second time using an X step to throw. Then finish off with 32 forehand throws. The footwork and lower body and balance feels pretty good. It's the upper body that feels super wonky even when the result is good. I was shocked that even on my best throws with an X step, I could only throw my fw's and control drivers about another 20-30' farther than from a one step! It makes no sense. Putters and mids are about the same, maybe on good throws another 10-20, but about the same. The consistency was about the same as one steps. So meaning, all over the place. About 25% are "good", 25% are horrible, and 50% are decent. I finally have reached end zone to end zone distance, so that's kind of cool, but not really, because I feel like I'm still using mostly my arm and rotator cuff muscles to get that distance.

To answer this question/idea from Randy C and SW22: Find a nice downhill lie and throw from there. Opening up into plant will send you down the hill unbalanced. If you manage to throw from there balanced you are most likely bracing/leading with the hips/staying more closed into the plant. I tried this at my football field and it was easy or actually easier to throw than flat! I had NO problem staying balanced and actually started throwing off of the hill and it was easy. So I don't have any problems with being too open or bracing properly. Every single time I tried it, I landed in balance and it actually felt good. It felt like I was coming down into the throw, as opposed to out with my front foot, and I liked the feeling, haha.

I'll get the video up later when I get home, but the things that immediately stick out like a sore thumb and are the bane of my Disc Golf existence at this point (and NEVER getting better) are the:

1. Disc riding up the back of my arm when moving my weight forward. The disc somehow keeps moving up and up until it gets almost around my rear shoulder height, no matter how low or high I start the disc height in the start. It drives me crazy, I don't feel it happening, and I actually try to make sure it doesn't happen, and yet it always happens. I even tried really hard to keep the disc way out wide like that Barry Schultz guy you told me to try and emulate. It didn't work I know that it is robbing me of 50'+ of distance as well as accuracy. It's that soft V air bounce cr*p. The disc goes from high to low and then right at the hit point, I somehow bounce the disc back up and then have a stunted low follow through. I need MAJOR help with this and ideas on how I can stop doing this. It's one of the MAJOR problems that is robbing me of tons of distance, accuracy and consistency. And tied into this is the follow through. It's not necessarily bad that my follow through is low and around, but it is probably a sign I'm not doing other stuff right before that point.

2. I can not for the life of me figure out how to throw more with my body and legs, as opposed to my arm and rotator cuff muscles. Every time I leave a field session, my right rotator cuff muscle is aching and very sore. No matter what I've tried so far, to try and whip my arm with my body and keep that 90* or larger angle, nothing is working! It is also the bane of my Disc Golf existence. Tons of distance and accuracy are lost and I have NO easy throwing (a la Freddy Couples, Philo Brathwaite, McBeth, etc). I need major help in this arena and have NO ideas on how to work on getting my lower arm to be more fluid and fast, while my upper arm stays more or less locked to my shoulder turn. Any ideas or help here would be MUCH appreciated as this is another huge problem that is NEVER getting any better, no matter what. Other things get better incrementally, this never changes. I can't do this


3. Grip selection. I can't find a good grip that always works no matter what. I use different grips for all my discs on power throws and all of them are like 50/50 success vs failure. The only two grips that give me any type of consistency for some very specific throws are the suitcase DFP grip on putters and mids for longer shots with those discs. And then a normal fan grip with the index finger just barely over the rim for touch shots of 200 or less. Other than that, I change around my grip every few shots trying to find something that feels good and really hooks into the rim. I try a 3 finger slanted grip with my index really locked into the rim for most 7-9 speed fw's and control drivers. But it's 50/50. Some throws I really feel it rip out of my index finger and they go farther, and some throws are horrible. Same goes for a power grip, modified power grip, hybrid power and fan grip I came up with where only my index and pinky are locked into the rim with the ring finger stacked on my pinky and the middle finger fanned onto the flight plate, or literally any other grip. None of them ever feel great, and none of them ever provide consistent results. I don't know if I should be using just one or two grips total, or a different grip for each disc shape? Like putters and the mids feel much better using either a fan grip or the suitcase DFP power grip. But all the other discs feel kind of weird with every single grip I try. I don't know if grip is as important as I think it is, or less important?

These 3 things are what I need the most help with. So if anyone has more ways or ideas on HOW I can do these and get them grooved into my throw, I'm all ears and very appreciative. Thanks everyone
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  #127  
Old 07-09-2019, 04:59 PM
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It's all fundamentally the same to me. I like to pump forward to the hit and pendulum straight down and back for aiming and because I can keep my arm(whole body) looser and everything moves in equal and opposite and my legs have to get out of the way of the pendulum backswing.

I would suspect you are trying to throw flat or low/downward. You need to throw upward trajectory to throw far with the nose down. You don't want to be using lift to reach the apex of the flight because that will induce major drag and slow the disc down. You want the disc to reach the apex with forward momentum and turn over nose down to glide out on the way down instead of stalling out.







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  #128  
Old 07-09-2019, 05:00 PM
UhhNegative UhhNegative is offline
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Sore arm/rotator cuff is definitely not a good sign. I'd be careful with that. Sounds like you are correct in your assessment that you are using your arm muscles to throw.

How are your hammer throws going? You can't really use your arm muscle to move the hammer around without having your shoulder/arm hurting.
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Old 07-10-2019, 10:03 AM
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Sore arm/rotator cuff is definitely not a good sign. I'd be careful with that. Sounds like you are correct in your assessment that you are using your arm muscles to throw.

How are your hammer throws going? You can't really use your arm muscle to move the hammer around without having your shoulder/arm hurting.
Yeah, it's not good. My rotator cuff muscles in my right shoulder are still sore and twingy today. So not good at all.

Hammer/sledge throws are good. I do them all the time before I actually throw, and do them well. I have a set routine now when I go out I've been using for awhile. Warm up with hammer/sledge throws for 5 mins or so. Then on to different throws as I outlined in the above post. So I'm all warmed up by the time I'm doing the X step throws. But the hammer/sledge throws, although done well, are not translating at all to my disc throws. I just don't see how they translate? It feels TOTALLY different between the two. And if I try to throw the disc like I throw the hammer, it goes maybe 150-180' and fades hard left almost instantly.

It TOTALLY looks like every single great thrower of a disc is using their arm to throw the disc, along with their body. Like somewhere around a 50/50 ratio. Not mostly their body and almost no arm like I read everywhere. So I'm just having the hardest time connecting these two seemingly opposite ideas into one. This IS the main reason I'm not throwing well and feel so frustrated. All the other things are varying levels of easy to hard to figure out, but I make progress or figure them out. This arm being almost dead and using the body to whip it around is like trying to learn Chinese and being dyslexic at the same time. It makes NO sense and it's just killing me and my progress and ability to enjoy this sport. It's such a hard concept to understand and fully explain to others I fear as well

Like when I throw a baseball from the outfield. It's NOT all body and almost no arm. I run up, take a hop step and use my body to leverage my arm/hand and really help whip the ball out. But you still use a ton of arm to throw it. Same with a tennis backhand or forehand. So I just don't even understand how swinging a heavy hammer or sledge is the same as throwing a tiny little weightless disc. This is just so frustrating and the biggest obstacle I'm experiencing.

I'm sure the battering ram video/stop hugging yourself are great videos, but they don't help me or teach me how to throw correctly. To me, when I watch them over and over, they are just theoretical videos, not reality. I watch the videos, see how the body is moving, then watch a throw, and it doesn't add up or look the same. So far, there is just nothing anyone is saying or explaining that is making any sense. And it's nobody's fault. I'm just not connecting with anything anyone is saying yet. I'd say the only instruction I've had any luck with yet and seem to connect with slightly more so is from HUB and his Heavy Disc articles. But still, the actual throwing part of the equation is still just not getting any better. If someone can explain how to do it in a different way, and I finally get that feeling, then the rest will be MUCH MUCH easier to figure out and incorporate. But until that happens, nothing else matters.

I did have a possible epiphany last night though while waiting for a commercial to pass while watching the Tour de France. I constantly am gripping and holding a disc while I watch TV, just to try and get more and more comfortable with the disc and grips. And sometimes I get up and swing around, etc. So last night, I was thinking of something I read somewhere about how the arm or body needs to be like a towel or whip cracking. So I started slow mo moving the disc through a throw and instead of continuing forward the whole way through the throw like normal, I kind of did this whip like motion with my arm/hand/wrist, very much like whipping a towel. And it got me wondering if I'm supposed to be doing that? Not just moving my arm forward the whole time, but right at the point of the hit, to kind of stop my arm/body and the wrist will sort of whip/eject the disc forward? Because I did this in slow mo with a disc and just kind of let my arm feel dead and whip it around with my body, and a few times of doing this then produced that feeling! Like I would pull back just a bit with all my weight right when the disc was out in front, near the hit point. And what would happen is the disc would pivot in my grip and my grip would be directly aiming at where my arm was just swinging too. So my thumb would be pointing down the throw line. Kind of like this:

And it felt like my shift in weight backwards at the last second produced this whip like feeling and like all that momentum of my body and loose arm moving forward, that then gets pulled back at the last second would RIP or PULL the disc out of my hand. But then it makes no sense, because I see EVERYONE moving forward constantly and there is no hitting INTO a brace and stopping. So I don't even know how it would work. Does any of this sound even remotely correct? Or is it way off base? It's just something I accidentally felt while messing around and wanted to explore the idea with everyone. But it definitely got me thinking. This video at 0:53 secs shows what I'm talking about:
https://youtu.be/SGGi7AqEvrY?t=53
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  #130  
Old 07-10-2019, 10:45 AM
UhhNegative UhhNegative is offline
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You ever tried HUB's windmill drill?
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