#251  
Old 08-30-2019, 01:15 PM
sidewinder22's Avatar
sidewinder22 sidewinder22 is offline
* Ace Member *
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Creeping Creek DGC
Years Playing: 13.2
Courses Played: 219
Posts: 14,987
Niced 2,737 Times in 1,701 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperWookie View Post
Of course one of you finds a super slow throwing guy to try and prove a point, ahaha Overall though, most of the players don't throw that way. But it is interesting to see how different people can throw far with slow, medium or fast swings. Just goes to show it's not how fast your swing is, but how you strategically do specific things in the throw to make sure the disc is going super fast right before it comes out of your hand. But this and some things SW mentioned below really do prove my point of how confusing this all is to me. A majority good throwers, pro or am, don't throw slow like Oman on long throws. They really get at it on long shots.

And another example would be watching someone like Seppo or especially Paul. On slightly shorter (for them) shots of like 250-400 some of those guys can and do look like their barely trying and just being super smooth. Like with a super slow x step walk up and barely any reach/turn back. But somehow they sling the disc out! But then you watch Simon or Eagle (and others) and they look like their trying to throw almost every disc to the moon and back. They just RIP into it! So it's SUPER confusing to me trying to learn, to know EXACTLY WHAT allows me to throw far.

Just like you mention SW, you can throw it 350-400 from a standstill doing the 1 leg drill! Doesnt make sense. And I remember the first time I watched HUBS windmill practice video and he's just casually tossing mid range discs 350-375 while up on his rear foot!!! It's absolutely ridiculous! It doesn't seem possible. I have NO IDEA how you guys are doing it! And I dont understand how Paul and others can throw a disc 250-350 with barely any reach back or forward weight transfer! If I tried to throw like this, I'd get 200-250 maybe!!!

Something like this is what Im referring to:



1 So this first part is possibly really important, and something Im going to mess around with. This super molasses slow first part of the swing and then exploding.

And another thing I was just thinking about while trying to fall asleep that maybe something Im not doing or understanding is the actual hit. So Im under the assumption from reading and watching that as the body moves forward into the actual hit, that the leg gently sets down, then your heel crushes the can and then your body just smoothly keeps moving through and the disc comes out. But when I think about a whip, you cant whip it unless you literally pump the breaks right before you want the whip to well whip. So your hand would be making a pattern in the air and then WHAM, the hand stop to allow the whip to sling forward and snap! But in disc golf, it LOOKS like every single person throwing is just continuasly moving their body through the hit. But it got me thinking, in golf, tennis, hockey, baseball etc, there is a moment (some sports its more and some less) right when you hit or throw the ball, that your body and arms and everything more or less STOPs and HITS the ball, THEN moves through after that. But there is a definite stopping of momentum for a split second to smash the ball. So baseball, Im moving my body forward, rotating, and then my plant leg slams my momentum to a stop to leverage my arms coming through behind me and SLINGS the h*ll out of the bat into the ball smashing the heck out of it! But all that momentum is too much, so it keeps going right after I hit the ball. Same with golf and tennis. There is a moment right when you hit the ball that your boy sort of stops for a split second to pull back sort of and sling your arms into the ball to smash it.


So is that something that happens in Disc golf? Do I need to be feeling/doing that? I feel like that could be a HUGE key to throwing far with less effort as opposed to the way I do it now which is just one long continuous motion of moving through the hit.

3 See, I don't get this. I can go into a tennis backhand or a golf swing without perfect balance and absolutely CRUSH the ball. The balance just keeps me standing up, and makes the shot more repeatable or consistent. But you dont HAVE to be in balance to hit a tennis or baseball far. So I don't understand this part at all. I understand how balance can HELP the swing, and make it slightly better, but its not the main reason one is able to smash a backhand in tennis, hit a golf ball far, or hit a HR 500. Theres other things going on that allow that really hard hit. Same with a baseball swing. I've seen guys with CRAZY a$$ swings almost falling over absolutely CRUSH balls 500+ feet. So when you say BALANCE is important to throwing well/far, I just don't see it or understand it. Maybe you can explain it more? Explain how and why the balance in your mind is a big reason for the distance. Because Im just not seeing that as a major factor to distance. A factor... yes, but minor in the grand scheme of being able to throw FAR. I'd say balance is a huge part of consistency, not distance. Like if I have subpar balance, I can still hit a golf ball a mile, just not very often. Whereas with the balance, I can hit it far almost every time.

And Ive done the one leg drill many many times and with pretty good results. Not your level, but thats also because I cant throw well in general. If I do the one leg vs a small x step, I really dont see a huge distance gap. Its pretty close even with my FWs. But regardless of how I throw, NOTHING feels right. I NEVER feel like the disc is ZIPPING out of my hand super hard and fast like when I hit a baseball, tennis ball or golf ball. Even just throwing a baseball, I can get whip, but not with a disc! I feel like Im not going to get this ever. I keep going to the field, practicing, and reading non-stop, and yet barely anything changes If this keeps up for much longer, I think I'm going to have to seriously consider taking a road trip to Denver and wherever SW lives, and spend a day or two under their tutelage, haha
Paul has 100% of his weight on the front leg even on short upshots and putts.

My best throws feel like perfect balance. Ken Jarvis doing distance practice.


Rotate to power pocket not thru it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PW-vWZgnNSk&t=159s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W2eWfwpahfk#t=1m30s

Core compression pumps the swing so your body is like a piston. Add forward momentum and dynamic balance the piston acts more horizontal to the swing plane with more redirection to crack the whip.
Sponsored Links

Niced: (1)
Reply With Quote
  #252  
Old 08-30-2019, 01:35 PM
sidewinder22's Avatar
sidewinder22 sidewinder22 is offline
* Ace Member *
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Creeping Creek DGC
Years Playing: 13.2
Courses Played: 219
Posts: 14,987
Niced 2,737 Times in 1,701 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperWookie View Post
Also, there is too much above to continue what I wanted to talk about. So I'm continuing here.

What about his idea of redirection? Meaning having the disc come from outside to in, then back out. Like this diagram I made awhile back shows.


Is this a CRITICAL part of the ability to throw far? Or can you throw super far without this redirection? Because if you watch someone like Seppo, there looks like there is almost or no redirection of the disc. He just has it curled up in his chest/belly the entire way and then releases. Simon is somewhat similar. He has it curled up in his chest most of the way, and only at the last second does it extend out from him. But it's not out and away, it's just back. So I'm confused for players like Simon, Seppo, Eagle and others that appear to have no back AND away. Just back. They only redirect the disc as they throw. So the disc is in their belly or chest the entire throw, then sometimes goes straight back behind them, then straight back into their chest/belly, and only when they actually throw it, does it then redirect out and away from them. There is not two redirections, just the one at the hit.

So this is another point I'm really confused about. And proves that no one way of taking the disc back is better or correct. Some people like Philo take it WAAAY outside and less back. I SEE Philo redirect the disc. He takes it way outside, then as he comes through the disc comes in towards his chest, then bounces back out and away as he throws. But others like Seppo and Simon don't take it anywhere or just back. So if we are discussing redirection and this "bounce" like effect that redirection has, how can you explain players that don't really redirect the disc? Or maybe they are, but I'm just not seeing/understanding how. So more info or explanation of that would also be super helpful. Thanks
Seppo doesn't keep his arm curled all the way, he just has a shorter backswing horizontally, he goes vertically from his belt up over his shoulder to the top of the backswing.


KJ Nybo probably has the biggest redirection and slowest x-step and bombs. Check post 2 in link:
https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forum...d.php?t=134177

Reply With Quote
  #253  
Old 08-30-2019, 01:55 PM
UhhNegative UhhNegative is offline
Eagle Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Courses Played: 48
Posts: 625
Niced 200 Times in 153 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by slowplastic View Post
I think this is the best visualization of it. The weight shift from the "door frame drill position" brings the hand/revolving door to your core near your front leg, and it has some momentum at this point. From here your body is set up in the launch position and you can push the door away from you by swinging your arm.

I suppose it's just a difference in interpreting what a "push" is. I still just see that is maintaining posture and "letting" the disc eject outwards. Like how you can swing a ball on a string and make it go faster as you "pull" or maintain position (counter?) against centripetal force. If I stand with my arm out at the hit point, I am in a terribly weak position to push anything. But I'm in a great position to maintain my torso position as the arm whips outward.
Reply With Quote
  #254  
Old 08-30-2019, 01:55 PM
SuperWookie's Avatar
SuperWookie SuperWookie is online now
Par Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 189
Niced 18 Times in 14 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by slowplastic View Post
Keep in mind with the feeling of when you are really bracing/redirecting your body relative to the swing, it's a bit different compared to a baseball bat or golf club. When you hit a ball, you are hitting it with the surface pretty flat to the contact so you hit it out straight down the fairway or slightly pulled for a baseball hit. When the bat is releasing through a bit more and the end of the bat is almost facing away from you, is when it has max power for being thrown. That's why a home run swing to left field would result in you throwing the bat over the 3rd base dugout if it slipped.

So if you change your goal to swinging the bat, and change your stance alignment to throw it where you intend, then you have a slightly different feel in the setup.

Just like you feel the heavy head of the bat swing around if you were to throw it, you have to feel the opposite side of the disc want to swing out on that last arc.
Yeah, I understand this in theory, and when swinging a bat. But it's not translating to a disc When I do this with a disc, it goes nowhere. But I can take out my softball and do this and focus on whipping it out into the field straight by having the end of the bat come around out in front of me and having the bat whirl around straight out in front of me. Same thing with the hammer. I can throw it straight, I can throw it left even, or pull it right. But put the disc in my hand and try to do the same thing, and bupkis!

And I'm still not understanding if the throw is supposed to have that split second SLAM STOP bracing moment at the hit like other sports or not? Meaning that split second right when you hit the golf ball, baseball or tennis ball, your body slams stop for a split second so the racket/club/bat can be whipped through. Does that happen in the disc golf throw? Are you slamming into your plant leg and at the split second, it's causing your arm to then get whipped through? Because like I already said, I'm not doing that. I have one continuous motion from stand still, to back swing to hit to follow through. There is no bracing feel like I get with all those other sports. Not anything like it.
Reply With Quote
  #255  
Old 08-30-2019, 01:57 PM
UhhNegative UhhNegative is offline
Eagle Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Courses Played: 48
Posts: 625
Niced 200 Times in 153 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperWookie View Post
Yeah, I understand this in theory, and when swinging a bat. But it's not translating to a disc When I do this with a disc, it goes nowhere. But I can take out my softball and do this and focus on whipping it out into the field straight by having the end of the bat come around out in front of me and having the bat whirl around straight out in front of me. Same thing with the hammer. I can throw it straight, I can throw it left even, or pull it right. But put the disc in my hand and try to do the same thing, and bupkis!

And I'm still not understanding if the throw is supposed to have that split second SLAM STOP bracing moment at the hit like other sports or not? Meaning that split second right when you hit the golf ball, baseball or tennis ball, your body slams stop for a split second so the racket/club/bat can be whipped through. Does that happen in the disc golf throw? Are you slamming into your plant leg and at the split second, it's causing your arm to then get whipped through? Because like I already said, I'm not doing that. I have one continuous motion from stand still, to back swing to hit to follow through. There is no bracing feel like I get with all those other sports. Not anything like it.
Yes, as I said in my last reply, not sure if you read it. Don't feel like typing it out again. It's not a split second but rather the exact same as golf: pressure into the ground before the swing and maintained through the swing. Do the windmill drill over and over, then right afterward doing that for a while, try to do a normal throw while maintaining that same feeling.

Niced: (1)

Last edited by UhhNegative; 08-30-2019 at 02:00 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #256  
Old 08-30-2019, 01:59 PM
SuperWookie's Avatar
SuperWookie SuperWookie is online now
Par Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 189
Niced 18 Times in 14 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by UhhNegative View Post
And re: pros/ams going fast to throw. There's lots of factors. When I threw lefty (my dominant hand) I had terrible form and basically always rounded. My arm was always pinned up against my body, yet, I still could throw 350', sometimes 375' on good days because I had basically optimized what that form could do. Doesn't mean I was doing it efficiently and I had to use significant effort to make that happen.

Example A: This was 360' with a speed 9 on an anhyzer to flat shot, yet I'm not even turning my hips back or getting the elbow out in front.


I wish I could find a video from 2016 where my form was 10x worse.
Yeah, I think this is what I'm still doing. I don't think I'm doing much of the correct form for throwing, even when I had that noticeable jump in distance and form a few weeks ago. I throw 350-390 as my longest throw. And that is when everything is perfect. And I'm almost 100% sure it's still mostly arm, and no whip and leverage I just am not understanding this, haha.
Reply With Quote
  #257  
Old 08-30-2019, 02:03 PM
UhhNegative UhhNegative is offline
Eagle Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Courses Played: 48
Posts: 625
Niced 200 Times in 153 Posts
Default

390 is pretty difficult to strongarm out there. You definitely are doing some things right.
Reply With Quote
  #258  
Old 08-30-2019, 02:16 PM
SuperWookie's Avatar
SuperWookie SuperWookie is online now
Par Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 189
Niced 18 Times in 14 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by UhhNegative View Post
I suppose it's just a difference in interpreting what a "push" is. I still just see that is maintaining posture and "letting" the disc eject outwards. Like how you can swing a ball on a string and make it go faster as you "pull" or maintain position (counter?) against centripetal force. If I stand with my arm out at the hit point, I am in a terribly weak position to push anything. But I'm in a great position to maintain my torso position as the arm whips outward.
EXACTLY! There is no push. In order to whip a whip or whip a ball on a string or whip a golf club into a ball, the body comes to a stop for a split second right at the hit that causes the arms to WHIP forward. Not push. I have never understood this idea when people discuss it. You literally said what I was going to say. If my arm is out at the hit about to release the disc, I am in NO position to push the disc away from me. It's ALREADY away from me. I can only pull the disc and then use the centripetal force my body has created to help it go even faster.

Like during a golf, tennis or baseball hit. I have done the majority of the work and all the energy is already done with AS I hit the ball. You don't HAVE to even follow through. I can hit a tennis ball super hard and have virtually no follow through, same with a baseball, same with a golf ball. Some of those more so than others, but all of them have the energy and force transferred to the ball AT the hit, not after. So if you extrapolate this to disc golf, the arm speed would be at it's highest right around the release of the disc. So you are LETTING the disc do it's thing the split second around the release. This is just so confusing
Reply With Quote
  #259  
Old 08-30-2019, 02:19 PM
SuperWookie's Avatar
SuperWookie SuperWookie is online now
Par Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 189
Niced 18 Times in 14 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by UhhNegative View Post
390 is pretty difficult to strongarm out there. You definitely are doing some things right.
Haha, well, maybe a few things, hahaha. Thanks. But overall, it's still not good. I'm just not "getting" the whip thing. Like SP told me at least once, "as soon as you throw it and feel that whip like feeling and it zings out there far, it's over. You'll know! You'll just work on getting slightly better and honing everything. But the arm feeling heavy and the whip is THE most important thing."
Reply With Quote
 

  #260  
Old 08-30-2019, 02:29 PM
sidewinder22's Avatar
sidewinder22 sidewinder22 is offline
* Ace Member *
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Creeping Creek DGC
Years Playing: 13.2
Courses Played: 219
Posts: 14,987
Niced 2,737 Times in 1,701 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by UhhNegative View Post
I suppose it's just a difference in interpreting what a "push" is. I still just see that is maintaining posture and "letting" the disc eject outwards. Like how you can swing a ball on a string and make it go faster as you "pull" or maintain position (counter?) against centripetal force. If I stand with my arm out at the hit point, I am in a terribly weak position to push anything. But I'm in a great position to maintain my torso position as the arm whips outward.
Should be able to push the wall with your weight:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlyD1ynQrh4&t=3m26s
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
drk_evns Backhand Form Thread drk_evns Form Analysis/Critique 116 09-25-2019 10:36 PM
Dazey's form thread Jet57 Form Analysis/Critique 2 02-19-2019 01:13 PM
drk_evns Backhand Form Thread drk_evns Form Analysis/Critique 3 10-27-2018 01:34 PM
anonyduce form improvement thread anonyduce Form Analysis/Critique 1 08-28-2018 07:24 PM
The ol' critique my form thread Hfactor Form Analysis/Critique 2 04-22-2013 07:47 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:46 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.10
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.