#31  
Old 03-13-2017, 10:32 PM
JohtoVillage JohtoVillage is offline
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$25,000 to $50,000 sounds high for a mold. Those are not the figures I have heard.
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  #32  
Old 03-13-2017, 11:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohtoVillage
$25,000 to $50,000 sounds high for a mold. Those are not the figures I have heard.


I agree, there are no side actions, lifter pins, anything like that. There must be an ejector ring as opposed to ejector pins - not sure where that is...

The cheapest way they could do it is with a MUD (Master Unit Die). This means they only have to buy the specific inserts for the discs, and don't need to constantly pay for the parts that attach it to the molding press. Probably closer to $15,000, tops. Here's an picture that shows the MUD assembly:




Here is a cross-sectional view that shows the type of mold they are probably using. This diagram shows two cavities; they are only running one like everyone else said.



So, they just have to buy the core plate and cavity plate for each disc (or even just the core and cavity inserts), and not the whole mold. If they aren't doing that, they're spending too much!

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Also, it sounds crazy that you would get two wildly different parts from a two-cavity mold, but there are lot of variables that affect the plastic parts. The temperature of the mold, especially unwanted hot spots, cause havoc on the way the plastic parts cool and affect the geometry. Even if they had the presses with the required tonnage, there would be too much variation.
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Old 03-13-2017, 11:28 PM
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Meulen Meulen is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohtoVillage View Post
$25,000 to $50,000 sounds high for a mold. Those are not the figures I have heard.
I knew I hadn't completed my thoughts! If it's done right, with good quality steel and properly designed cooling, $25k is very much possible. Where the cost can come down is what notapro is referring to above. However, I'm confident they are not using MUD units. What a manufacturer could do is buy one entire mold base, and then only swap out cavity and core plates. In some instances, the cavity and core might remain the same, and they only change out a stripper plate to create a new geometry on the underside of the wing. The stripper plate is what creates this feature on a disc. So for the cost of one plate, you can essentially create an entirely new disc. This brings the cost down drastically, and also cuts the lead time.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by notapro View Post
I agree, there are no side actions, lifter pins, anything like that. There must be an ejector ring as opposed to ejector pins - not sure where that is...

The cheapest way they could do it is with a MUD (Master Unit Die). This means they only have to buy the specific inserts for the discs, and don't need to constantly pay for the parts that attach it to the molding press. Probably closer to $15,000, tops. Here's an picture that shows the MUD assembly:




Here is a cross-sectional view that shows the type of mold they are probably using. This diagram shows two cavities; they are only running one like everyone else said.



So, they just have to buy the core plate and cavity plate for each disc (or even just the core and cavity inserts), and not the whole mold. If they aren't doing that, they're spending too much!

------------------------

Also, it sounds crazy that you would get two wildly different parts from a two-cavity mold, but there are lot of variables that affect the plastic parts. The temperature of the mold, especially unwanted hot spots, cause havoc on the way the plastic parts cool and affect the geometry. Even if they had the presses with the required tonnage, there would be too much variation.
See the first link I provided above. It shows the stripper plates that are used by Discraft. You can think of it as an ejector ring in a way, except it is on the "A" side of the mold. I'm honestly not sure how you could incorporate a stripper plate that is used into a MUD frame, but it might be possible. Most manufacturers are using a standard mold configuration. I agree with you on two-cavity molds. Too much variation which makes a single cavity mold a great choice. There is enough variation in the manufacturing process as it is.
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Old 03-13-2017, 11:34 PM
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That makes a lot of sense. Makes the MUD idea seem like overkill in retrospect.

Good insight on the stripper plate, too! I didn't think they would have a three plate mold, but you kill two birds with one stone like that.

I bet the cost is closer to $6,000 to $10,000 for two inserts and a stripper plate...
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Old 03-13-2017, 11:48 PM
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There mold doesn't surprise me in the least. Being molded over seas who needs a striper ring when you have cheap labor to just reach in and pull it. As for not having a sprew vs cut in. That's up to the molders choice. Would bet anything the option of doing it solid makes for a better overall part thickness with the dome vs having to key it in. I don't like the die locks from a blow mold locating it. too easy to break and a pain to replace.

As for venting you can see it in the one picture on the left. Look at the female bushing. I would have thought that it would be a vent running all the way around with a .5 by .030 vent dump to run it out the part. (thinking they just vented the one corner and same thing at the 9 o'clock area.
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  #36  
Old 03-13-2017, 11:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by notapro View Post
That makes a lot of sense. Makes the MUD idea seem like overkill in retrospect.

Good insight on the stripper plate, too! I didn't think they would have a three plate mold, but you kill two birds with one stone like that.

I bet the cost is closer to $6,000 to $10,000 for two inserts and a stripper plate...
Didn't Dave complain about mix and matching mold bases? Something about them getting broken and warn out or was it discraft? I would almost bet a pay check that innova isn't taking the destroyer mold parts and mixing and matching. Let alone now they are engraving the disc type into the mold. I could see the price of 10,000 or less if its just a plate here and there.
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