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Old 03-23-2017, 10:00 AM
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Default What would you do in this situation.

I think I understand the rules in this situation but I am curious what other people would do.

I realize step 1 is to throw a better shot.

I threw my drive into a bunch of bushes and my disc ended up under a thick half dome of wood vines. I could get my foot in into the dome but the front of the dome was towards the basket so I couldn't legally take a stance without supporting points in front of the lie.

I ended up taking my stroke and taking relief on the opposite side of the bushes.

Theoretically I could have crawled up on to the wooded vines and thrown but would have disturbed and could have broken the vines. Would that violate the rules in some way?
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Old 03-23-2017, 10:06 AM
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I think you played it correctly. I dont think you'd be within the rules if you climb up on something though. Theres also something about if taking a stance at your lie creates a danger to you (I think), but doesnt seem to be relevant here.
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Old 03-23-2017, 10:15 AM
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That could be considered a "solid" obstacle and play under 802.03.E

http://www.pdga.com/rules/official-r...03-marking-lie
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Old 03-23-2017, 10:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krupicka View Post
That could be considered a "solid" obstacle and play under 802.03.E

http://www.pdga.com/rules/official-r...03-marking-lie
Solid is probably a group decision but I wouldn't use the word solid. I am really bad at describing things and I don't have a picture. It was a cluster of 1 inch thick vines that was over and behind the disc. That was then surrounded by tons of bushes.
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Old 03-23-2017, 11:25 AM
JC17393 JC17393 is offline
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From what I can gather from your description, the way you played it was perfectly valid.

I don't think you could stand on the vines if you believe you'll bend or break them. You have to stand on a playing surface, and something that is going to bend/break under your weight really doesn't qualify.

I also don't think the solid obstacle rule comes into play. I've yet to see a bush that 100% prevented any legal stance from being taken. Prevented comfortable or preferred stances, yes, but not all possible stances. It might have taken some work, and probably wouldn't have yielded much of a throw, but I expect there was a way to take a legal stance. Using optional relief was probably the wise decision in the end.
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Old 03-23-2017, 11:31 AM
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I've seen plenty of bushes where there are clusters of stalks coming out of the ground which are so tight that the disc on edge can't even get to the playing surface, let alone placing a foot in there without crushing/breaking the stalks. Even then you wouldn't be on the playing surface, but on the now broken stalks.
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Old 03-23-2017, 11:32 AM
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Quote:
803.02 Optional Relief and Optional Re-throw
A. Optional Relief. A player may elect at any time to take optional relief. The lie may then be relocated to a new lie which is no closer to the target, and is on the line of play. One penalty throw shall be added to the player's score.
Quote:
802.03 Marking The Lie
E. If a large solid obstacle prevents the player from taking a legal stance behind the marker disc, the player may instead mark the lie by placing a mini marker disc on the playing surface immediately behind that obstacle on the line of play.

As long as you took your relief straight back along the line of play (from the target to your disc), you played it right. You can go back as far as you want if you pay the penalty.

If you placed your mini immediately behind the vines, then you could ask the group whether it was a solid obstacle. If they couldn't agree, you could ask the TD after the round and maybe avoid the penalty throw.
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Old 03-23-2017, 11:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GirdleRoc View Post
I think I understand the rules in this situation but I am curious what other people would do.

I realize step 1 is to throw a better shot.

I threw my drive into a bunch of bushes and my disc ended up under a thick half dome of wood vines. I could get my foot in into the dome but the front of the dome was towards the basket so I couldn't legally take a stance without supporting points in front of the lie.

I ended up taking my stroke and taking relief on the opposite side of the bushes.

Theoretically I could have crawled up on to the wooded vines and thrown but would have disturbed and could have broken the vines. Would that violate the rules in some way?
Quote:
Originally Posted by JC17393 View Post
From what I can gather from your description, the way you played it was perfectly valid.

I don't think you could stand on the vines if you believe you'll bend or break them. You have to stand on a playing surface, and something that is going to bend/break under your weight really doesn't qualify.

I also don't think the solid obstacle rule comes into play. I've yet to see a bush that 100% prevented any legal stance from being taken. Prevented comfortable or preferred stances, yes, but not all possible stances. It might have taken some work, and probably wouldn't have yielded much of a throw, but I expect there was a way to take a legal stance. Using optional relief was probably the wise decision in the end.
If he legitimately could not take a legal stance, he should have been able to take relief behind the bush within 5 meters, in the line of play, with no penalty. It sounds like he took a penalty stroke he didn't have to.
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Old 03-23-2017, 11:52 AM
JC17393 JC17393 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Consult20 View Post
If he legitimately could not take a legal stance, he should have been able to take relief behind the bush within 5 meters, in the line of play, with no penalty. It sounds like he took a penalty stroke he didn't have to.
Not quite. This isn't a casual obstacle, so there's no "within 5 meters" allowed. If you're calling it a solid obstacle, then the mark would go directly behind the obstacle and on the line of play, no further relief given without penalty.

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Old 03-23-2017, 11:55 AM
JC17393 JC17393 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krupicka View Post
I've seen plenty of bushes where there are clusters of stalks coming out of the ground which are so tight that the disc on edge can't even get to the playing surface, let alone placing a foot in there without crushing/breaking the stalks. Even then you wouldn't be on the playing surface, but on the now broken stalks.
If the disc is wedged in the stalks and not on the playing surface, it's suspended and you'd have to mark with a mini underneath. If the stalks prevent the mini from being placed on the ground, then you mark directly behind the stalks on the first available playing surface. That doesn't necessarily get you out from within the branches of the bushes, but it would give you a place on the playing surface to put a supporting point behind the lie.
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