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View Poll Results: Which of these best describes Hole 18 at the Utah Open?
A par 2 where 38% of throws are errors, and 1% of throws are hero throws. 6 25.00%
A par 3 where 24% of throws are errors, and 33% of throws are hero throws. 16 66.67%
A par 4 where 16% of throws are hero throws, and 23% are double heroes. 1 4.17%
A par 5 where 37% of throws are hero throws, and 21% are double heroes. 0 0%
A par 6 where 16% of throws are hero throws, and 62% are double heroes. 1 4.17%
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  #3331  
Old 10-21-2018, 01:38 PM
biscoe biscoe is offline
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Sample size issues aside I don't see how scoring indicates in any way that Hole 9 for the men is anything other than a Par 5.
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  #3332  
Old 10-21-2018, 03:20 PM
Steve West Steve West is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by biscoe View Post
Sample size issues aside I don't see how scoring indicates in any way that Hole 9 for the men is anything other than a Par 5.
It IS a par 5 because the TD said so. I'm only considering whether the TD might want to change it for future events.

Par is not defined as average nor mode -though both are reasonable ways to set par. This hole gives us a rare case where methods disagree. Par isn't defined by my method either. My method - which I think is closer to the definition - would indicate there are just enough 4s to indicate a 1000-rated player could expect a 4 with errorless play. Which would mean that a bunch of the 5s are the result of an error.

However, since the scores don't give a strong indication that it could be a par 4, this a hole we'd need to go beyond the scores to look at the physical hole and also see how it is played. Watch all the rounds and see if more players got a 5 without making an error than got 4s. Maybe they did, I don't know. But, from just looking at scores, there were enough 4s to indicate that 4 very well could be the expected errorless score.
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  #3333  
Old 10-21-2018, 03:46 PM
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teemkey teemkey is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve West View Post
...
Par is not defined as average nor mode -though both are reasonable ways to set par. This hole gives us a rare case where methods disagree. Par isn't defined by my method either. My method - which I think is closer to the definition - would indicate there are just enough 4s to indicate a 1000-rated player could expect a 4 with errorless play. Which would mean that a bunch of the 5s are the result of an error.
...
Of course, most of the players are well above 1000 rated.
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  #3334  
Old 10-21-2018, 04:16 PM
Steve West Steve West is offline
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Of course, most of the players are well above 1000 rated.
Yes, which adds to the paucity of data if "expert" means a 1000-rated player. Because this event (and also the USDGC) are so selective, maybe the "expert" should be the typical player. Using all the scores from all the players, the indicated par would be two lower at 60. (#3 & #17)
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  #3335  
Old 10-21-2018, 08:03 PM
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teemkey teemkey is offline
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Originally Posted by Steve West View Post
Yes, which adds to the paucity of data if "expert" means a 1000-rated player. Because this event (and also the USDGC) are so selective, maybe the "expert" should be the typical player. Using all the scores from all the players, the indicated par would be two lower at 60. (#3 & #17)
I think it would make more sense to calculate an "elite" (platinum?) par if you want to stick with 1000 rated as expert.
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  #3336  
Old 10-21-2018, 09:00 PM
Steve West Steve West is offline
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I think it would make more sense to calculate an "elite" (platinum?) par if you want to stick with 1000 rated as expert.
For now, I do want to stick with 1000 as the expert. Also, I don't want to add another higher skill level category of par. There just aren't enough really highly rated players yet. The majority of players at the majority of tournaments are under 1000. And at all the events where the best players show up (even this one, because everyone cashes) Gold par does the best job of keeping par closest to all the scores that cash.

By the way, just like the next Hawai'ian Island will be named Lōʻihi, the next skill level up will be Black, and the mid-point rating will be 1025. But neither is ready to emerge yet.

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  #3337  
Old 11-20-2018, 12:07 PM
Steve West Steve West is offline
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Moving beyond Open for a minute, the 2018 Next Generation Tour National Championships had perfect pars for 950-rated players, which is good for Ams.

Or, to put it more modestly, my method agrees with the TD.

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  #3338  
Old 11-28-2018, 11:56 PM
Steve West Steve West is offline
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The Choices Flooring 2018 Australian Disc Golf Championships Presented By Nature 2 Nourish



The pars would have been perfect for an Advanced level tournament.
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  #3339  
Old 11-29-2018, 01:11 AM
jjmiller jjmiller is offline
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Seems pretty simple to me. In regular golf, it's how many shots it "should" take to get to the green and two putts. Putting is much harder. Even pro golfers don't expect to make everything inside 30'.

So in disc golf, we still use "shots to the green and two putts", but it's much easier to hit a basket with a disc than a 4" hole with a 1.68" ball or whatever it is.

Add in the fact that it's a lot easier to go significantly offline with a shot that's likely to be pushing 1,000' and traveling close to or maybe even over 200 mph with thousands of RPM of spin that can potentially be quite a lot of sidespin, and regular golf is just significantly harder to shoot "par" at than disc golf.
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  #3340  
Old 11-29-2018, 08:21 AM
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DavidSauls DavidSauls is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjmiller View Post
So in disc golf, we still use "shots to the green and two putts"....
Ah, but we don't.

Well, some people do, in a common-law type of ruling, but fewer of them, particularly at top level events.

Nothing in our definition mentions the green, or two putts.

It used to refer to two throws from close range (not the green), but that's gone now.
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