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Old 03-28-2017, 10:57 AM
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Marmoset Marmoset is offline
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Default The DGCR mold: lid geometries discussion

Now that we've voted on the lid-style disc we need to discuss what features we want it to have. I don't see how this part can be a poll yet. It might turn into a poll later.

Below are some topics that need to be discussed so that the CAD artist can begin drawing the profile. I'll volunteer to be the CAD artist unless DGCR wants someone else to do it.

PDGA LEGAL: do we want it to be legal? if not, there are fewer design restrictions.

GLIDE: low, medium or high glide?

NEUTRALITY: unerstable, neutral, stable, or overstable? I see neutral and stable as two different descriptions. Neutral can easily shape flights but is more speed stable. Stable can also shape different flights based on release angle and is more high speed stable/ less speed sensitive.

DIAMETER: Polecats are small diameter @ 21.3cm and Zephyrs are large diameter at 24.1cm. How big do we want ours to be?

RIM DEPTH: most lids are fairly deep @ roughly 1.6cm (deeper than an Aviar's 1.5cm). Do we want a deep rim or a shallow rim like the Ringer's 1.2cm? Or in between?

SHOULDER: round like a Rattler/Putt'r/Upshot or squared off like a Polecat? Which brings us to the next category...

THUMTRAC: Some people love them, some people hate them. Should we include? There are several variants on the market now. Rhynos/Birdies/Wolves have a Thumtrac. Zephyrs and Bergs have a weird lippy thing. RDG has the mini-groove. Discraft has the Groove Top. Ching has the Juju/Velocity divots.

RINGS OF HEDRICK: yay or nay? These are the concentric circles on the tops of UltraStars, Sonics, Fastbacks, etc.

RAISED CENTER: As seen on the Sonic/ Fastback/ Superhero type discs. Good idea or bad?

DOME: Do we want it domey or flat?

OVERMOLD: Should we attempt this or should we go the traditional route?

RIM "BEAD" RADIUS: large radius or small? Worded differently, really blunt and rounded or more sharp?

BEVELED EDGE: should we include a bevel? UltraStars have a very slight bevel, Polecats do not.

INTERNAL RIM TO FLIGHTPLATE TRANSITION RADIUS: large radius or small? some like to have the pads of their fingers on a rounded transition to the bottom of the flight plate, some like a much sharper transition.

PLUS RIM: Do you love or do you hate plus rims?

WEIGHTS: Are light weights important to you? If you answered yes, what do you consider light?




please feel free to add to the list if you think I left anything off.
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Old 03-28-2017, 10:58 AM
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Marm O. Votes:

PDGA LEGAL: absolutely YES.

GLIDE: medium to high

NEUTRALITY: neutral… I’m fine with having an upper boundary after which we go understable.

DIAMETER: 22cm is what I originally proposed. This was before I knew about the Beetle @ 21.9cm so now I’m less set on this measurement. Maybe the 22-22.5cm range is my new wish list diameter.

RIM DEPTH: relatively shallow for me. Shallower than a Polecat IMO, Aeros are 1.3cm deep and I like the idea of that. Ringers are 1.2 deep and I think that might be a little too shallow for my tastes.

SHOULDER: I prefer squared but I can make just about anything work. Flight is more important to me than minor changes in grip. Major changes in grip might change my answer.

THUMTRAC: I love Thumtracs but a Rhyno style Thumtrac will kill the glide. I like the idea of a very small indentation like the RDG top but that kills glide as well. I vote for a few Ching-style Juju divots at different distances from the perimeter. You can use them if you want or ignore them and still have a traditional style profile.

RINGS OF HEDRICK: I don’t know if there is any aerodynamic advantage to these but these rings are the common mode of failure on the Sonic. I vote to leave them off.

RAISED CENTER: I vote bad idea.

DOME: flat to mild dome IMO

OVERMOLD: As much as I like the idea of an overmolded lid, I think this needs to be traditional one shot, no overmold. I don’t want to add complexity to the project. Maybe the next DGCR disc will be overmolded 

RIM “BEAD” RADIUS: Polecat feels right to me. Putt’rs feel to roundy IMO.

BEVELED EDGE: I like the idea of a faint bevel but nothing extreme. This should be a slow disc and the lower profile is already adding a tiny bit of speed.

INTERNAL RIM RIM TO FLIGHTPLATE TRANSITION RADIUS: I like the larger radii transitions. They feel better when I flick.

PLUS RIM: Not. A. Fan. On some features I could vote either way. Not this one. I actively vote against plus rims.

WEIGHTS: yeah, I like light lids. I like 150g Polecats. My 150g Zephyr is fantastic, too. I would love for this to be produced in weights ranging from 130-180g if possible.

Last edited by Marmoset; 03-28-2017 at 11:01 AM.
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Old 03-28-2017, 11:10 AM
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Keller Keller is offline
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What I would like;

PDGA LEGAL: YES.

GLIDE: medium

NEUTRALITY: neutral

DIAMETER: 21.8 - 22cm

RIM DEPTH: 1.4 - 1.5cm

SHOULDER: squared

THUMTRAC: Prefer a Thumtrac, but not a deal breaker if it didn't have one.

RINGS OF HEDRICK: No, No, No!

RAISED CENTER: No. I hate the Sonic

DOME: flat to very slight dome

OVERMOLD: No

RIM “BEAD” RADIUS: On a Lid?? Don't even know what that would look like.

BEVELED EDGE: No

INTERNAL RIM RIM TO FLIGHTPLATE TRANSITION RADIUS: No Preference

PLUS RIM: Not prefered

WEIGHTS: 150-180gr
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Old 03-28-2017, 11:12 AM
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PMantle PMantle is offline
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I agree with Marmoset.
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Old 03-28-2017, 11:18 AM
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Marmoset Marmoset is offline
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Thanks for the feedback Keller! Do you think I missed anything? I tried to be thorough...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keller View Post
RIM “BEAD” RADIUS: On a Lid?? Don't even know what that would look like.
Sorry, I don't think I described that very well. I'm not proposing a bead. I'm asking how large of a radius you prefer down where the bead would be. I described it as "bead" radius so that it would not be confused with the "rim to flightplate transition" radius.

Sorry for any confusion!
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Old 03-28-2017, 11:30 AM
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Reniger Reniger is offline
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PDGA LEGAL: Of course!

GLIDE: For a lid, I prefer mid-to-high glide

NEUTRALITY: Pure neutral would be awesome!

DIAMETER: I like large diameter lids, but we prolly wouldn't raise as much fundage. I'd say mid diameter, say around 22cm-ish

RIM DEPTH: DEEP! 1.6 sounds good!

SHOULDER: Lids are to be squared.

THUMTRAC: I can go either way, but I do enjoy the RDG style mini thumbtrac. Do not like the spoiler type for anything other than a Stego.

RINGS OF HEDRICK: MASSIVE NAY! Hate the rings. Feels like a toy from childhood.

RAISED CENTER: Dome, meh. Okay, but definitely not preferred. Intentionally raise? Bleck!

DOME: Zephyrs tend to be a little domey and I don't mind that, but I prefer flat-tops.

OVERMOLD: Nope, nope, nope!

RIM "BEAD" RADIUS: Rounded is bested.

BEVELED EDGE: Not so much.

INTERNAL RIM TO FLIGHTPLATE TRANSITION RADIUS: The Radium has a rounded transition which is SUPER comfortable for forehands, but in a lid, I think a sharp transition is best.

PLUS RIM: I'm all set! Thanks!

WEIGHTS: It would definitely be interesting to see some max weight and some lightweight (if possible) Say there's a 22cm lid, it'd be hard to get into the 150s, but mid 160s might be possible. With max weight being 180g. I would definitely get a 165g and a 180g.
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Old 03-28-2017, 11:32 AM
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Mulligan Mulligan is offline
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PDGA LEGAL: YES.

GLIDE: Lots

NEUTRALITY: neutral

DIAMETER: 21.5-22.0

RIM DEPTH: 1.6cm

SHOULDER: squared

THUMTRAC: NO

RINGS OF HEDRICK: NO

RAISED CENTER: NO

DOME: Flat

OVERMOLD: No

RIM “BEAD” RADIUS: Same as Polecat

BEVELED EDGE: No

INTERNAL RIM RIM TO FLIGHTPLATE TRANSITION RADIUS: Rounded might be cool, but I'm ambivalent

PLUS RIM: No

WEIGHTS: 155-180gr
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Old 03-28-2017, 11:47 AM
Dubbsy Dubbsy is offline
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PDGA LEGAL: it doesn't matter to me, I wouldn't use it for sanctioned events anyway

GLIDE: Would love to see a high glide lid, but realistically aren't they all low due to it being badly shaped for aerodynamics

NEUTRALITY: Neutral

DIAMETER: 21.5-22

RIM DEPTH: 1.6

SHOULDER: Like the polecat

THUMTRAC: Yes

RINGS OF HEDRICK: no

RAISED CENTER: No

DOME: Flat

OVERMOLD: Traditional

RIM "BEAD" RADIUS: No

BEVELED EDGE: No

INTERNAL RIM TO FLIGHTPLATE TRANSITION RADIUS: Smaller but smooth

PLUS RIM: Plus rims? I dunno

WEIGHTS: Not at all. Make it as heavy as possible.

I have a few Discraft Magnets that have this cross hatched area on the inside of the rim for like 4-5" length. I didn't think anything of it until I threw one off the tee that didn't have it.
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Old 03-28-2017, 12:05 PM
Moose33 Moose33 is offline
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PDGA LEGAL: Yes please

GLIDE: medium

NEUTRALITY: Neutral to stable

DIAMETER: dont like big discs, 22 cm or less

RIM DEPTH: Mid to shallow 1.3-1.5

SHOULDER: Squared

THUMTRAC: Either the RDG mini dip thing or nothing.

RINGS OF HEDRICK: No, they are not helpful.

RAISED CENTER: No! Super flat.

DOME: No! Flat.

OVERMOLD: Either way, go with the cheaper one so that we can buy it cheaper and make more money.

RIM "BEAD" RADIUS: No bead.

BEVELED EDGE: If the top edge of the rim was slightly in front of the bottom like a Claws, that would be okay, but not a real bevel.

INTERNAL RIM TO FLIGHTPLATE TRANSITION RADIUS: as long as it's not too rounded that's fine.

PLUS RIM: probably no.

WEIGHTS: whatever max for our decided diameter is.

I've been thinking about names too. And if a camel is a horse created by a committee. Then we should call our polecat designed by comittee the platapus.
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  #10  
Old 03-28-2017, 12:08 PM
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chevis chevis is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dubbsy View Post
I have a few Discraft Magnets that have this cross hatched area on the inside of the rim for like 4-5" length. I didn't think anything of it until I threw one off the tee that didn't have it.
Here is the answer to that, I really like the crosshatching, it's great when the disc is wet.

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