#31  
Old 01-21-2012, 07:30 PM
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Open field holes are weak to start with. But they are acceptable if they are in the proper length range.

The data doesn't indicate well designed holes that can be overthrown are too easy. For blue level, even relatively open holes in the 525-600 ft range have good scoring spread and most blue level players can still overthrow the basket on their second shot.
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  #32  
Old 01-21-2012, 07:35 PM
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Chuck in terms of placement golf I love the reach the far end of the 10M circle concept....
this seems to fall apart with woods golf down wooded fairways with turns and/or low ceiling drives....by this logic Idlewild and Tyler would be poorly designed courses
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Old 01-21-2012, 07:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Cgkdisc View Post
Open field holes are weak to start with. But they are acceptable if they are in the proper length range.

The data doesn't indicate well designed holes that can be overthrown are too easy. For blue level, even relatively open holes in the 525-600 ft range have good scoring spread and most blue level players can still overthrow the basket on their second shot.
ok your referring to open field holes... me culpa
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Old 01-21-2012, 07:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Cgkdisc View Post
People at the skill level should be able to get within 10m or longer by overthrowing the hole.
Disagree. I'm not a long thrower, 350 controlled, 375 big, 400 huge. I used to try and "park" every 400 foot hole that I played, but often walked away with bogey. One day I realized that I'm quite good in the 40-80 ft. range. I always give them a chance and almost never 3-putt. Then I started going for my 350 ft. controlled drive on the 400 foot holes, knowing that I'd have a chance for a long putt and minimizing the chances of a bogey.

I'm a blue level player and used to view those 400 footers as a liability in my game, but now I view them as an asset. (given that they aren't just 400 feet across an open field.) I know that proper strategy will gain me strokes on the field. Now, if you shrink all the holes at the long end of the blue continuum, you've reduced the strategy in the game.
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Old 01-21-2012, 07:36 PM
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I disagree with this sentiment a bit. Here in the Triangle there aren't that many holes where Big Arms have an advantage, most of the holes are shorter and wooded where technical players have the advantage. So I think having a hole that leaves most players with a shorter easy upshot if they throw their normal 300-320 straight shot, but gives Big Arms a chance to go for the green makes a lot of sense in terms of hole mixture.

I mean the technical guys usually get 12 holes out of courses out here where throwing short and straight is key but they rarely have to push outside of that zone and throw longer straight shots. Now of course having the skill to throw straight and hit spots should be rewarded but being able to throw long and straight should be rewarded as well, and usually isn't around here.

A great example for what I'm talking about is #16 at Zebulon. It's 480' total. It's completely open until you get to the 300' area where the woodline starts on the left. Then the woodline on the right starts about 380'. For the final 100' you have a 40' fairway to hit with the basket sitting about 10' in the woodline on the left.







On this hole a lot of guys can put one safely out right up to 350' and have no problem avoiding the right woodline and laying up for a 3. So basically if you can at least hit 350' with any sort of accuracy you'd be in the NAGS zone. BUT if you can throw 400'+ and hit a 40' gap then you're looking at a run at the basket. If you throw it 400' but not accurately you're in some fairly dense woods. So for the Big Arms you've got a decision, go for it and risk hitting those woodlines or lay up out to the right just like a lot of players would be doing anyway.

The hole creates risk/reward for longer arms and forces guys with not much length to have a 130-150' upshot that's not easy but not hard either.

I know quite a bit of guys that are lucky if they push 320' on long throws but are very technically sound guys that throw short and straight, make fairways and have goes at the basket for a birdie when they can. It's smart disc golf to play like that, but when most holes on a course are set up to be played like that it's refreshing to have one that says hey, you short arms aren't going to have a go at birdie on this, but if you can throw far and straight you can birdie it.
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Old 01-21-2012, 07:49 PM
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That hole 16 is okay but would be even better if it were maybe 515-550 down the alley. Looks to me like a relatively routine 3 even if you only throw 300' unless you get too far left. If you go too far right is there OB or just a lower elevation like I remember?
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Old 01-21-2012, 07:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Cgkdisc View Post
If you go too far right is there OB or just a lower elevation like I remember?
There is a park road on the right but I can't remember how far down it goes. It is more or less a routine 3 though, unless you goof up and go too far to the left.
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Old 01-21-2012, 07:56 PM
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Originally Posted by biscoe View Post
big arms have an inherent advantage on most holes anyway... the darkside at blockhouse is heavily wooded with almost every hole being reachable for someone who can throw 325-330. the only people who shoot extremely good scores on it however are the ones who can reach all those holes with a buzzz or a roc rather than with a destroyer or something similar. when skinner shot his 1100+ round on it he probably didn't throw a driver more than 4-5 times.
I agree with this and having been decimated by the Darkside I concur

I do as well with a Roc as I do with a driver on many more open holes as I can place the shot more favorably at the expense of some distance....ironically I am left with a simple NAGS shot when with a driver on an open hole I am left with a NAGS shot as well but usually from a spot I wasnt intending. (R or L or deep)
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Old 01-21-2012, 07:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Cgkdisc View Post
That hole 16 is okay but would be even better if it were maybe 515-550 down the alley. Looks to me like a relatively routine 3 even if you only throw 300' unless you get too far left. If you go too far right is there OB or just a lower elevation like I remember?
but the upshot is a NAGS....you would rather it be a 2 drive hole instead of a drive and approach hole...correct...your goal is to do away with approach shot?
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  #40  
Old 01-21-2012, 08:04 PM
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My definition of NAGS is a little shorter than Houck, he says 100-150, I say 50-125 for blue and 75-150 in the open for gold. So hole 16 at 480 ends up with NAGS for gold and a short approach for blue. Adding 35-70 feet gets the hole out of NAGS for gold and blue and in the "normal" approach range for both with 250 as an approach even for blue level throwing just 300 off the tee on a 550 hole.
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