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Old 05-20-2022, 09:36 AM
timothy42b timothy42b is offline
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Default Two opposite approaches to Nose Down

I hope these haven't been discussed, apologies if so.





Overthrow says you can swivel, (forearm rotation vs supination), Stokely says not to.
Interesting that Stokely gives a drill that looks very much like Spin&Throw's Throw around the Pole drill.

Stokely's anny approach does work, it's how I throw my longest drives, usually far right of my target and often not actually closer to the hole. But they seem to keep sailing forever.
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Old 05-20-2022, 01:48 PM
Lastchancer88 Lastchancer88 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timothy42b View Post
I hope these haven't been discussed, apologies if so.





Overthrow says you can swivel, (forearm rotation vs supination), Stokely says not to.
Interesting that Stokely gives a drill that looks very much like Spin&Throw's Throw around the Pole drill.

Stokely's anny approach does work, it's how I throw my longest drives, usually far right of my target and often not actually closer to the hole. But they seem to keep sailing forever.
Skip to about 6:14. I'm bad at time stamping the link.



If you're trying to throw straight, and it's sailing right, you may be rolling your wrist instead of your arm naturally supinating into the hit.

If you can "pour the coffee" in front of your chest, as in you have the physical ability in your wrist, you can do it in the throw. A lot of folks pull after the backswing which makes it difficult to keep the wrist in a neutral or nose down position. I've recorded videos of me pulling and the nose gets pulled up doing it. It's a hard habit to break but essential for good technique.

My opinion is if you naturally keep the disc level to the angle you want it on, that's as simple as it gets. If your arm naturally pronates after the backswing and then supinates at the hit, that's great too. The main thing is to keep the wrist pushed forward like pouring a liquid, and the arm loose/not pulling. If your swing path is good from there and you're not compromising body angles, it'll come out nice.
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Old 05-20-2022, 01:59 PM
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sidewinder22 sidewinder22 is offline
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Technically the only thing that matters is the angle at the moment of release.

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Old 05-20-2022, 02:06 PM
timothy42b timothy42b is offline
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I went to the soccer fields with a stack of fairway drivers to experiment this afternoon. All throws from OLD to reduce other variables.

So first Stokely's "avoid the swivel." 20 throws, 1 that was nose down or close. I'm not sure how the arm can avoid the swivel, the shoulder must internally and externally rotate, but then again there is Homer Kelly and the horizontal hinge, so I dunno.

There's a lesson for me though, I haven't been paying enough attention to nose up while I work on posture and body, and sure enough I'm really bad.

Then, Stokely's backhand someone. Not sure how different that is, but, 20 throws, 2 that were nose down.

Okay, Overthrows turn. 20 throws forcing the coffee position the entire swing. Nose down more than half, maybe 3/4, and a good bit more distance.

Overthrow again, 20 throws rolling into nosedown during the swing. A little bit higher percentage of nose down, and some decent throws, but good thing the soccer fields are unoccupied because direction is all over the place, also several unintentional cut rollers.

And finally Stokely's cut roller drill, another 20 throws. I found it really hard to coordinate. Most of them were nose down and a few were really long. Maybe 4 or 5 yanked hard on my fingers like I was getting some snap. It would take me a lot of work to get good at this, and it was 95 with no shade.

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Old 05-20-2022, 04:41 PM
BillFleming BillFleming is online now
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After watching LOTS of 'how to' videos and reading LOTS of 'how to' advice here and elsewhere; I've come to one conclusion.

Advice isn't for everyone.... if it works for you great, if not, there's probably something else that will.

Not to pick on him....but Scott Stokely has a forehand video where he says there are three ways to do the backswing and one is wrong. He says you should never bring the disc straight back. Well, watch Eagle (at least his before injury throws) and Adam Hammes. Both of them are pretty much straight back. I find I'm more accurate with a straight back pull on forehands. But I know others who can't throw a forehand that way - they do the pendulum or windmill.

People who give advice are usually telling you what works for them and hoping it works for you. Overthrow's swivel may work for some and Stokely's advice may work for others. Gotta go throw and try different things to figure out what works for you. This sport would be so much easier if there really, truly was only one way to do things. (for example...Putting: push, spin, spush, turbo...straddle, stagger, jump......I just want my putter to go in the basket!).

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Old 05-21-2022, 07:51 PM
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What I’m surprised that none of them mention is how you’re balanced on your plant leg. When I throw nose up it’s almost always because I get caught tipped back behind my plant leg (e.g I slip and lose my balance, rush etc). See pics below

https://imgur.com/a/MmynTdx

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Old 05-21-2022, 08:55 PM
timothy42b timothy42b is offline
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And a followup.
After that field work session in the morning, I played a round in the afternoon.
Worst score of the year.

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Old 05-23-2022, 11:23 AM
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Nose angle follows good form. If you find yourself adjusting grip, wrist, or your arm angle in your swing, you likely have problems elsewhere. Biggest nose-up issue is balance.

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Old 05-23-2022, 01:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sidewinder22 View Post
Technically the only thing that matters is the angle at the moment of release.
+1 million

All of these videos show people holding their arms out to the release point and showing how the "nose" of the disc is pointing. Problem is that with good form, the disc will have pivoted up to 90 degrees out of your hand by that point. Honestly with good disc pivot it is nearly impossible to throw nose up, so if you want to fix your issues you need to get that pivot worked out first. That advice probably holds for the vast majority of swing problems.
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Old 05-24-2022, 01:23 PM
Waddball Waddball is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blayed View Post
What I’m surprised that none of them mention is how you’re balanced on your plant leg. When I throw nose up it’s almost always because I get caught tipped back behind my plant leg (e.g I slip and lose my balance, rush etc).
Totally agree. I estimate 80% of my nose up issues come from being caught in between.

The other 20% are something else. I have a few throws where I know my balance is good but something weird happens and I immediately see the back of the disc on release, and I know it's doomed. But I'm really not sure on these. I've noticed that in general if I keep my head down through the whole swing and let my rear shoulder bring my head/eyes up (like ball golf) this doesn't happen. So I wonder if there's some kind of yanking or sloppiness that happens in the wrist/forearm if I get too eager and look up too soon to follow the flight.
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