#51  
Old 10-20-2018, 04:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Bradley Walker View Post
What is Kevin Jones? I don't think he is Swedish, I think he is from Arkansas.
Drew Gibson has roots from Sweden:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gnOu8ePftkw#t=3m50s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wstfsTWvGFQ

So does Avery and GG and PP. Kallstrom and Astrom are actually Swedish:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhQzVIX4cVs&t=44
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Last edited by sidewinder22; 10-20-2018 at 04:40 AM.
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  #52  
Old 10-20-2018, 04:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Hoeschel View Post
How exactly you "reach back" does not matter. For the actual throwing motion, you want to do that without actively moving you arm anyways. Use your body in a way that moves the arm through the correct positions. Just make sure your upper arm doesn't collapse against the chest. If you think about using the body as a power generator levering the arm, then it makes no sense to actively move the arm forward. You will lose the connection to your body and there is no way your muscles can make up for that.

edit: see how fast the lower arm is moving here in relation to the upper arm:
Exactly:


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  #53  
Old 10-20-2018, 04:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Bradley Walker View Post
I think it is real simple.

There are three arcs.

1. The central arc, which is simply the extension of your extended arm from your rotational center. the one we are addressing here.

2. The elbow folding and unfolding. I am starting to think that elbow folding is pretty much going to happen unless you are fighting it.

3. The arc of the disc around your wrist facilitated by your wrist bending back in the same manner as your elbow. This is more reaction than action. but I think many of the best throwers actively cockl their wrists back despite the claims to the contrary. I could post many examples.
I prefer to think about the throw in terms of levers and leverage rather than arcs. The body is a series of levers that becomes one big lever like a big hockey stick. You can actually see your levers. The arc is an imaginary line, which does not create leverage, rather the arc is the byproduct of leverage.

Last edited by sidewinder22; 10-20-2018 at 05:00 AM.
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  #54  
Old 10-20-2018, 08:59 AM
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Nah, youre not nobody SW

Last edited by Grippenripp; 10-20-2018 at 09:02 AM.
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  #55  
Old 10-20-2018, 09:09 AM
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The only thing different here is language when you get right down to it. BW is teaching to use the trailing side of your body in an active manner and all good form advice gets you to that point but without saying it directly. So when you read all these articles and watch these vids and talk to people and they say "one day it just clicked" this is what clicked. I didn't abandon all other form advice because of this thread, I dont think it's going in any "new direction" it's just focusing on a different point of the throw. Mostly were told what to do with the trailing arm. Here we're being told how to use it. Unless I severely misinterpreted somethings this is my takeaway. I feel like this fits in with the rest of all good form advice I have taken in.

Last edited by Grippenripp; 10-20-2018 at 09:12 AM.
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  #56  
Old 10-20-2018, 09:33 AM
Bradley Walker Bradley Walker is offline
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The word arc actually accurately describes what is happening to the user. When you swing your arms around your lead leg and take your trailing foot off the ground it creates an arc. When you swing the disc around your wrist it creates an arc. When you bend your elbow it creates a small arc.

These terms are simple that explain what the user is seeing instead of worrying about what the physical effects are or the engineering explanation.

I can certainly say that the word lever does not adequately describe the main arc that is made by the core of the body. If you were to say I need you to make a lever around your core people would look at you like you're crazy. But if you say I want you to make a wide arc around your core people would probably understand what you were saying.
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Old 10-20-2018, 09:39 AM
Bradley Walker Bradley Walker is offline
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One of the main problems with teaching disc golf backhand throwing in particular has been discussing rotational movements in linear terms. I am no longer going to discuss rotational movements, which the human body does not move in linear motions, with linear terms.
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  #58  
Old 10-20-2018, 01:26 PM
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I'm a crazy engineer. Everybody's brains work and think in different ways, everything is a perception of our own brains. IMO there is no one absolute way to teach or think about the throw. When you are focused on a target, things can become perceived as straight even though the arc is obvious - like hammering a nail or using a battering ram (or tossing the weight of an object/disc), you want to pound the nail straight into a target, but to use the weight of the hammer you have to lever it from your body which creates an arc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sidewinder22 View Post
There is a difference between "flat swing plane" - how the body works, vs a "flat shot" - how the disc flies. Both are actually myths/perceptions.

McBeth is throwing on hyzer swing plane - his shoulders are not rotating flat - or parallel to the ground, they are rotating /. It's a tilted spiral. His arm is also rotating to keep the disc on plane throughout the swing. There is no such thing as straight with the human body, nature, or in the universe, unless you are a "Flat Earther". There is the saying that "feel ain't always real" and what feels "flat" or "straight" is not real.

When you walk "straight", you are actually rotating your hips, pelvis and spine, and shifting your weight/center of gravity left and right. If you trace your center of gravity walking from a drone view it would look like a snake locomotion or a sine wave. A straight line is a choppy abstract mathematical concept and perception of your mind. Sine waves actually occur in nature and are the epitome of smooth and efficient motion, this is how pendulums swing and strings vibrate, and you walk and swing a disc.

The disc is also released on slight hyzer and flips up to flat in the high speed flight phase and then glides. If the disc was actually released flat it would most likely end up turning over to anhyzer or roller during the high speed flight phase.

KJ most likely perceives in his mind from the first person perspective(with body/head turning) that he swings in a straight line(black trajectory line), yet from a third person perspective you can clearly see he arcs the disc like a sine wave or golden spiral that reverses direction in the power zone.


Last edited by sidewinder22; 10-20-2018 at 01:41 PM.
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  #59  
Old 10-20-2018, 02:40 PM
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Add in the G-forces experienced during the throw and some weird things tend to be perceived by our brains.






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  #60  
Old 10-20-2018, 05:27 PM
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Watched the final round of the USDGC today. Kevin Jones and James Conrad on the lead card. Both throw with the left shoulder (surprised I noticed it on Conrad.) Both looked effortless with their distance. But both showed what you are describing here BW.
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