#411  
Old 06-23-2017, 04:46 PM
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erock216 erock216 is offline
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Originally Posted by ODRB View Post
4 rounds on two courses is just any C-Tier. This doesn't feel like Worlds at all.

Minimum 6 rounds (two divisions ought to make this manageable) on at least 3-4 courses.
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Originally Posted by ODRB View Post
Hyperbole to reinforce a point.

It is no different than any NT, many A-Tier and even some B-Tier events.

World's should be more than and mean more than any other weekend tournament. BSF was two weeks ago. Two hard courses. 4 rounds. Great tournament. But it wasn't for the World Title.

It detracts from the meaning of "World Champion" and makes it more random. Nobody wins every tournament. But when World's was a truer test and an act of attrition, the cream consistently rose to the top.

Heck, even I can string together several great rounds. Not Ricky Great. Not even whoever-is-in-last great. But "X-Time World Champion" loses a lot of meaning when it is just another weekend NT.
The cream did rise to the top. Haven't you heard? Ricky is the best.
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  #412  
Old 06-23-2017, 04:49 PM
WildlyMediocre WildlyMediocre is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ODRB View Post
4 rounds on two courses is just any C-Tier. This doesn't feel like Worlds at all.

Minimum 6 rounds (two divisions ought to make this manageable) on at least 3-4 courses.
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Originally Posted by erock216 View Post
2 courses and 4 rounds is a C tier? On what planet?
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Originally Posted by Orioles_Lefty View Post
Don't let facts distract you!
Yeah, a C-tier anywhere I've played is 2 rounds and hope for cold pizza in between them.

Let's even take the location they just played. What is Augusta to the PGA? The Mecca. The Masters. The Green Jacket. The goal of every golfer who plays professionally.

But it's also the same course. Every year. Four rounds. Every year. Since 1934 they've done nothing but stretch out some holes to accommodate the increased range of pros. And it's still the pinnacle for a pro.

Now, I do think the Worlds can benefit from some tweaking. But it's also the first year they're going down this road. I think the PDGA has some big ideas, and it's just easier for them to build a sculpture from the ground up than chip away at the existing one.
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  #413  
Old 06-23-2017, 04:55 PM
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DavidSauls DavidSauls is online now
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I've run C-tiers that were 4 rounds. I've played C-tiers that were 4 rounds, and 2 courses.

But not courses like these.

And not with a pool of players like this. Or payout Or prestige. A handful of DGCR posters may see it as diminished, but I doubt the players contending for it do.
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  #414  
Old 06-23-2017, 05:09 PM
JC17393 JC17393 is offline
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Originally Posted by AzteC View Post
Isn't this exactly what happened last year? Ricky is just running away with it. At least when Paul won, Ricky at least kept it close. If Ricky just maintains this (and who is to say he won't improve) I could def see him Trumping Paul's 4x.
Aside from 2014, Paul pretty much ran away with all his Worlds (and only two of the four featured Ricky in 2nd). In fact, tight battles to the end were far more the exception than the rule for Worlds under the old format. Since 2001, this has been the margin of victory (lead entering final 9 in parenthesis)

2001 - Cam Todd - 6 (5)
2002 - Ken Climo - 14 (11)
2003 - Barry Schultz - 6 (7)
2004 - Barry Schultz - 9 (11)
2005 - Nate Doss - 3 (5)
2006 - Ken Climo - 5 (3)
2007 - Nate Doss - 1 (2)
2008 - David Feldberg - 14 (13)
2009 - Avery Jenkins (playoff win)
2010 - Eric McCabe - 5 (3)
2011 - Nate Doss - 7 (7)
2012 - Paul McBeth - 5 (7)
2013 - Paul McBeth - 5 (6)
2014 - Paul McBeth (playoff win)
2015 - Paul McBeth - 11 (14)
2016 - Ricky Wysocki - 6 (5)

The Final 9 was far more often than not a victory lap for the leader, with little to no drama at all. I count three (2007, 2009, 2014), maybe four years (one of 2006 or 2010) in which there was anything resembling a battle for first in the final 9. Otherwise, the final 9 added nothing. Arguably the 5th/6th/7th rounds didn't do a whole lot either.

There are valid arguments to be made about keeping the old format. That it lent itself to more drama and less dominance by a single player is definitely not one of them.

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  #415  
Old 06-23-2017, 05:11 PM
Lazerface Lazerface is offline
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Man I have not checked scores all day because I've been busy at work and just pulled up the live scoring and realized worlds was over.

I guess it's still exciting to see who will get second
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  #416  
Old 06-23-2017, 05:14 PM
WildlyMediocre WildlyMediocre is offline
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I think the World Championships is a nice event, and a good title for a pro to have. Same with be being the USDGC Champion. A couple of other tournaments have really started to rise in their prestige. Maple Hill Open, for example. GBO is now the biggest event each year.

I think we're going to see a closer emulation to the PGA now, especially with the advent of the DGPT. A point system that determines the right to play for the top prize each year. And still have these marquee events like the Worlds and the USDGC as additional medals to hang around your neck each year.

Might it lower the importance we've always placed on the World Championship, with its lofty name and grueling structure? Maybe. But I think it would only serve to raise up other events in the process, making the pro season as a whole each year more complete and interesting to follow.
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  #417  
Old 06-23-2017, 06:14 PM
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AzteC AzteC is offline
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Originally Posted by JC17393 View Post
Aside from 2014, Paul pretty much ran away with all his Worlds (and only two of the four featured Ricky in 2nd). In fact, tight battles to the end were far more the exception than the rule for Worlds under the old format. Since 2001, this has been the margin of victory (lead entering final 9 in parenthesis)

2001 - Cam Todd - 6 (5)
2002 - Ken Climo - 14 (11)
2003 - Barry Schultz - 6 (7)
2004 - Barry Schultz - 9 (11)
2005 - Nate Doss - 3 (5)
2006 - Ken Climo - 5 (3)
2007 - Nate Doss - 1 (2)
2008 - David Feldberg - 14 (13)
2009 - Avery Jenkins (playoff win)
2010 - Eric McCabe - 5 (3)
2011 - Nate Doss - 7 (7)
2012 - Paul McBeth - 5 (7)
2013 - Paul McBeth - 5 (6)
2014 - Paul McBeth (playoff win)
2015 - Paul McBeth - 11 (14)
2016 - Ricky Wysocki - 6 (5)

The Final 9 was far more often than not a victory lap for the leader, with little to no drama at all. I count three (2007, 2009, 2014), maybe four years (one of 2006 or 2010) in which there was anything resembling a battle for first in the final 9. Otherwise, the final 9 added nothing. Arguably the 5th/6th/7th rounds didn't do a whole lot either.

There are valid arguments to be made about keeping the old format. That it lent itself to more drama and less dominance by a single player is definitely not one of them.
This is why I'm fine with a 4 round Worlds. Worlds was always second to me regardless compared to USDGC. More rounds is just going to see Ricky pull further and further ahead. People say, we need 6 rounds to really see WHO is the best and can outlast the rest. Well, in this case, the best is still the best, 4 rounds or 6 rounds.
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  #418  
Old 06-23-2017, 06:15 PM
DanJon DanJon is offline
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The idea of World's as the most prestigious event to win just seems to be watered down now.

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  #419  
Old 06-23-2017, 06:23 PM
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sjberry2017 sjberry2017 is offline
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Originally Posted by bschick View Post
Am I the only one that feels like the WR Jackson seems like it has a lot of poke an hopes? Perhaps the video did not do this course justice? I have not played it, but watching some of those holes after what seemed like a perfect drive left them nothing but a lucky approach to the green? I am struggling with only two courses and only four rounds crowning a world champ? Perhaps I am in the minority here...
Poke and hope WR Jackson certainly isn't; it's super tight and the landing zones are really demanding, but the fairways are wide enough and the trees spaced far enough that you can get a line through them. You may not get all the way to the pin, or you may have almost no margin for error, but the lines are still there. It's not random, where you just throw and hope you miss the trees, but you have to be 110% certain that the line you're throwing is the line you want to take. Which makes it perfect for Pro Worlds.

As an example, on hole 4, the ideal landing zone is tiny, but missing it a little short or long isn't a death sentence. All that does is cut down your angle at the second fairway, so you have to play a little more flex or little more hyzer if you missed the ideal spot. The old teepad (the shorter one) is just perfect for the shot; the longer one, to me, requires a bit more discing up which makes the LZ tougher to stick with the added skip. I've also had a shot off the shorter tee go straight, kick back off a tree and land in the open area before the LZ, and laced a turnover shot with a Patriot (totally by accident, I wasn't even trying to hit that fairway but it worked) up through the gap to get on the hill.

Now, the tee shot on hole 5 is a bit poke and hope, and the three short holes in succession are kind of ridiculous, but for the top guys, the three short holes are a good test.

Also, a bit of correction for Cory in the CCDG videos; they aren't pine needles, they're pine straw Man is the Fort Gordon course making me feel homesick
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  #420  
Old 06-23-2017, 06:24 PM
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DavidSauls DavidSauls is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JC17393 View Post
Aside from 2014, Paul pretty much ran away with all his Worlds (and only two of the four featured Ricky in 2nd). In fact, tight battles to the end were far more the exception than the rule for Worlds under the old format. Since 2001, this has been the margin of victory (lead entering final 9 in parenthesis)

2001 - Cam Todd - 6 (5)
2002 - Ken Climo - 14 (11)
2003 - Barry Schultz - 6 (7)
2004 - Barry Schultz - 9 (11)
2005 - Nate Doss - 3 (5)
2006 - Ken Climo - 5 (3)
2007 - Nate Doss - 1 (2)
2008 - David Feldberg - 14 (13)
2009 - Avery Jenkins (playoff win)
2010 - Eric McCabe - 5 (3)
2011 - Nate Doss - 7 (7)
2012 - Paul McBeth - 5 (7)
2013 - Paul McBeth - 5 (6)
2014 - Paul McBeth (playoff win)
2015 - Paul McBeth - 11 (14)
2016 - Ricky Wysocki - 6 (5)

The Final 9 was far more often than not a victory lap for the leader, with little to no drama at all. I count three (2007, 2009, 2014), maybe four years (one of 2006 or 2010) in which there was anything resembling a battle for first in the final 9. Otherwise, the final 9 added nothing. Arguably the 5th/6th/7th rounds didn't do a whole lot either.

There are valid arguments to be made about keeping the old format. That it lent itself to more drama and less dominance by a single player is definitely not one of them.
Nice. Even with an argument for more rounds, perhaps particularly with an argument for more rounds, the Final-9 is likely to be a yawner. At least with a Final 18, there's more time for a comeback or collapse.

I'll mention for some people that the benefit of more rounds isn't so much stamina---I think all of these guys can play a lot---as it is rewarding sustained excellence. With more rounds, it's harder to ride a hot hand, and easier to recover from an early stumble.

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