#171  
Old 07-09-2019, 04:47 PM
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chevis chevis is offline
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Originally Posted by kenjiac View Post
Unless the TD declared as casual relief a bush is not a solid object no matter how dense it is to get optional relief from. She played as she should have or she could have gone into the bush. She can't do what you're suggesting
optional relief always available for a stroke: 803.02 D.
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A player may elect at any time to take optional relief by declaring their intention to the group. The lie may then be relocated by marking a new lie which is farther from the target, and is on the line of play. One penalty throw is added to the player's score.
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  #172  
Old 07-09-2019, 05:20 PM
MattS MattS is offline
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I'm a bit annoyed by the implication from many of these posts that Paige's dominant win was simply a product of the course design and not something she really earned.

The real story is that Paige played magnificently.

Not only did she throw it farther than everyone else, she was also extremely accurate and completely avoided blow-up holes (zero OBs and double-bogeys). To top it off, she made more C2 putts than anyone else.

Great rounds from Paige are consistently 1000+ rated; this isn't new.

The same thing happened at Ledgestone, but Catrina also played awesome disc golf, so we were treated to the epic show-down. In fact, Paige's dominance over the field was even greater at Ledgestone, where she beat Lisa Fajkus by 16, Sarah Hokom by 20, and Madison Walker by 22 (just a sampling of the top finishers at DGLO who also played Ledgestone). I think the extreme distance of the middle holes on Toboggan played against Paige, because they were too hard for even her to reach C1 in regulation.

I'm not saying that the FPO layout of Toboggan is the greatest course ever for FPO competition. Certainly, you wouldn't want it to be the only course in a Major, and you wouldn't want too many to the DGPT stops to be just like it (just as you wouldn't want too many to be full of < 300ft holes with wicked-tight so-called "fairways"). But recognize that Toboggan didn't win by 12 strokes, Paige did.

When Paul McBeth won Throw Down the Mountain by fourteen strokes (14!!!), nobody talked about Paul-proofing anything. Great players sometimes ruin competition. Celebrate it.

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  #173  
Old 07-09-2019, 05:28 PM
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R-Ogre R-Ogre is offline
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Originally Posted by MattS View Post
I'm a bit annoyed by the implication from many of these posts that Paige's dominant win was simply a product of the course design and not something she really earned.
Friggin preach.

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  #174  
Old 07-09-2019, 06:22 PM
JC17393 JC17393 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kenjiac View Post
Unless the TD declared as casual relief a bush is not a solid object no matter how dense it is to get optional relief from. She played as she should have or she could have gone into the bush. She can't do what you're suggesting
Optional relief costs a penalty and can be taken at any time. Todd wasn't suggesting free relief, so casual relief or solid obstacle relief need not apply.

Vanessa was choosing to take a penalty by taking an optional re-throw. She could have taken the same penalty and saved herself 250-300 of distance by taking line of play relief behind the bush, which in turn may have saved her a throw on the scorecard.

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  #175  
Old 07-09-2019, 06:32 PM
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SD86 SD86 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MattS View Post
I'm a bit annoyed by the implication from many of these posts that Paige's dominant win was simply a product of the course design and not something she really earned.
I did not get the impression that anyone is saying nor implying that Paige won because of the course design. Of course she played very well and was rewarded with a big win.

The conversation has been about how pin placements might affect the scores of the players, which IMHO is a legitimate conversation to have, and is not meant to be an insult to Paige's (nor anyone else's) actual play.

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  #176  
Old 07-09-2019, 06:35 PM
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davetherocketguy davetherocketguy is online now
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Originally Posted by SD86 View Post
Power is great, but it's control of that power that is most important.
Understatement of the century.

I have a friend that has 500+ power. His throws are amazing sometimes. However, someone who can throw 250' accurately will destroy him every day of the week on the majority of disc golf courses in the world.
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  #177  
Old 07-10-2019, 09:33 AM
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kenjiac kenjiac is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JC17393 View Post
Optional relief costs a penalty and can be taken at any time. Todd wasn't suggesting free relief, so casual relief or solid obstacle relief need not apply.

Vanessa was choosing to take a penalty by taking an optional re-throw. She could have taken the same penalty and saved herself 250-300 of distance by taking line of play relief behind the bush, which in turn may have saved her a throw on the scorecard.
A. A player may obtain relief from the following obstacles that are on or behind the lie: motor vehicles, harmful insects or animals, people, or any item or area as designated by the Director. To obtain relief, the player may mark a new lie that is on the line of play, farther from the target, at the nearest point that provides relief.

B. If a large solid obstacle prevents the player from taking a legal stance behind the marker disc, or from marking a disc above or below the playing surface, the player may mark a new lie immediately behind that obstacle on the line of play.

C. A player who takes relief other than as allowed above receives one penalty throw.

D. A player may elect at any time to take optional relief by declaring their intention to the group. The lie may then be relocated by marking a new lie which is farther from the target, and is on the line of play. One penalty throw is added to the player's score.

E. No penalty throw is added if optional relief is being taken following a penalty taken for a disc out-of-bounds or above two meters

I've got to remember this one Thanks!!

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  #178  
Old 07-10-2019, 02:31 PM
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BogeyNoMore BogeyNoMore is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davetherocketguy View Post
Understatement of the century.

I have a friend that has 500+ power. His throws are amazing sometimes. However, someone who can throw 250' accurately will destroy him every day of the week on the majority of disc golf courses in the world.
Depending on the course, and accurate noodle arm may beat an inaccurate bomber... or vice-versa.

HOWEVER... one thing increased distance allows you to do is throttle down the power and/or disc down. Part of the reason players who can throw 450 ft bag more birdies is that they can place 350 ft shots with more precision than players who can just make it out to 350 - 375.

When achieved through improved technique (rather than via more "oomph"), increased distance typically results in improved accuracy, specifically because those players can throw using less power.

So moar distance allows you to increased your birdie count birdies by:
1) Simply being able to reach more baskets (obviously).
2) Higher frequency of "quality looks" at baskets shorter than your max distance.

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  #179  
Old 07-10-2019, 02:32 PM
Jolt Jolt is online now
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Why was Barelas teeshot on hole 1 R3 OB? he out drove the OB ropes/OB area
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  #180  
Old 07-10-2019, 02:51 PM
JC17393 JC17393 is offline
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Originally Posted by Jolt View Post
Why was Barelas teeshot on hole 1 R3 OB? he out drove the OB ropes/OB area
I assume it's because it's not a "lake" of OB that one can out drive. He landed on hole 17's fairway which might appear "safe" with the way the ropes are set up but is not actually in-bounds for hole 1.
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