#11  
Old 06-02-2017, 11:58 AM
Steve West Steve West is offline
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Originally Posted by brutalbrutus View Post
I don't agree if we are talking about using actual sand traps. For one thing, it adds a variable to the tee/approach shot that the players have to take into account. Going into a sandtrap playing golf can cost you strokes(especially in links golf), though obviously not a penalty. It also removes the ambiguity of where to mark the lie. At one of the earlier tourneys this year, several times they stood around and argued whether a disc contacted grass on the far side of the trap. However they do need to make sure the hazard line is well marked. Todays live feed is an example of why that needs to happen. but if they are gonna continue to use golf courses for disc golf then they need to have things that make it more difficult.

I would agree that randomly roped off areas being played this way, is bad. I think they have done this at the USDGC in the past?
I’m not saying sand traps should not be special areas that add risk. They should. I’m saying the risk should be that you have to move the lie back along the line of play to get out of the sand trap. This adds distance which will add throws, but the player has a fighting chance to overcome the punishment.

If the player can’t take a stance without touching the sand trap, the lie moves. There would be no need for debates about where the disc was. You move straight back from the disc on the ground.
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  #12  
Old 06-02-2017, 12:20 PM
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F. Howl F. Howl is offline
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Originally Posted by Quinntastic View Post
Well yea artificial as in built and placed there but if you end up in a sand trap you play it out, no stroke because the hazard has potential to add strokes. Also I believe technically in ball golf you can play from the water with no stroke if you so choose. Nobody does cause you probably would take more then 1 stroke, but still. So I kind of see your point but your way off base because the hazard itself creates the challenge that MAY add strokes, not just oh you went into the sand trap you add a stroke. If your good enough to make the save from the hazard you aren't penalized. If you throw into the woods in disc, and make a brilliant out to save par that's exciting to watch. When it's arbitrary lines that add strokes because the course lacks true disc hazards such as trees, bushes, ponds etc. it really hamstrings the game.


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Sand traps are harder for ball golfers to hit out of. Without the "hazard" stroke in a sand trap, there is no added difficulty to a disc golfer. (I bring my travel basket to the beach all the time, so don't say bad footing.)
It isn't overly punitive. If you want to risk pushing it, you might suffer a penalty stroke.

Sand traps aren't large enough to adequately penalize a player if all they have to do is take their disc back 20 or 30 feet. On longer pars, sand traps on the first drive wouldn't force any lines or landing areas. It would all be fairway.

Last edited by F. Howl; 06-02-2017 at 12:25 PM.
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  #13  
Old 06-02-2017, 01:38 PM
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BrotherDave BrotherDave is offline
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Originally Posted by 1978 View Post
Nope, its the triple double mando, for safety.
(Make 2 triple mando's in a row most dumb. (for safety)

Second most is the triple double mando as a design element but not for safety.
Ah yes, the clown's rectum.
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Old 06-02-2017, 02:01 PM
Quinntastic Quinntastic is offline
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Originally Posted by F. Howl View Post
Sand traps are harder for ball golfers to hit out of. Without the "hazard" stroke in a sand trap, there is no added difficulty to a disc golfer. (I bring my travel basket to the beach all the time, so don't say bad footing.)
It isn't overly punitive. If you want to risk pushing it, you might suffer a penalty stroke.

Sand traps aren't large enough to adequately penalize a player if all they have to do is take their disc back 20 or 30 feet. On longer pars, sand traps on the first drive wouldn't force any lines or landing areas. It would all be fairway.


I definitely don't think the footing in the sand would have any effect on a disc golfers throw. I just see a lot of these traps in spots that look like they could add a stroke because of other reasons tho. High lips (they are well below a green often enough) as well as a lot of times being placed in suboptimal positions for an approach. Perhaps it's more the design around the existing ball golf course that has made it seem they need to add penalty strokes instead of let the course play. Sometimes it makes sense I suppose when there are NO obstacles, but I watched a throw the other day, wasn't a great throw but not terrible, clipped a tree and fell into a trap. He's already punished by hitting the tree and falling 200' short so why the need to add a stroke as well?


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  #15  
Old 06-02-2017, 02:09 PM
Steve West Steve West is offline
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Originally Posted by F. Howl View Post
....
Sand traps aren't large enough to adequately penalize a player if all they have to do is take their disc back 20 or 30 feet. On longer pars, sand traps on the first drive wouldn't force any lines or landing areas. It would all be fairway.
Around the target, that 20 or 30 feet can change a putt from one a player expects to make, to one the player expects not to make. And, as they are putting over the sand trap, there is a chance they'll land in it again, adding yet more throws.

I think we could put baskets even closer to sand traps if the penalty was to move back instead of immediate penalty.

For sand traps on the fairway, yes, the difference isn't much. But, those sand traps that are still a full throw from the target are the ones that face the most wear and tear from run-ups and twisting foot plants. Moving the lie back keeps players out.

To offer enough risk, perhaps the mid-fairway traps could have a drop zone that presents a difficult line or a significant amount more distance.

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Old 06-02-2017, 02:36 PM
Quinntastic Quinntastic is offline
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Having played ball golf for quite a while as well, I find it had to believe that even a full run through in a sand trap would have too much effect on it overall. I mean golfer dig there feet in and whack a huge amount of sand up into the air when playing out of the sand, so why do people think a disc golf throw would do any more damage?


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  #17  
Old 06-02-2017, 02:59 PM
Steve West Steve West is offline
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Originally Posted by Quinntastic View Post
Having played ball golf for quite a while as well, I find it had to believe that even a full run through in a sand trap would have too much effect on it overall. I mean golfer dig there feet in and whack a huge amount of sand up into the air when playing out of the sand, so why do people think a disc golf throw would do any more damage?


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Frankly, the greens I've seen can stand up to disc golf play pretty well, too. Whether there is any damage or not, it just seems more respectful to make a show of avoiding playing in the sacred areas of the course.
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Old 06-02-2017, 03:34 PM
Dr.Smooth Dr.Smooth is offline
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What Steve said made sense. Like what he said about footage and excitement. That should be a strong argument about some of our bull**** rules.

DG has to captivate more viewers to have any chance of getting sponsorship. So, this my friends should be a unifying goal for us on how we make rule changes.
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Old 06-03-2017, 08:39 AM
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I hate the "hazard penalty stroke" concept. I'm not sure I can frame a reason---just subjectively, it reminds me of landing on the wrong square in a kid's board game. (Younger viewers: google "board game"). Something very odd about saying, "play as normal, just add a stroke".

It doesn't bother me at all to designate areas as O.B. ("move your disc and add a stroke---the stroke is for moving your disc").

But I agree with Steve that many of these would be well-served by making them casual---"buncrs"---to add distance, particularly when they're close enough to the basket that the distance change matters. And, as he says, this brings the option of putting baskets closer to these design elements. I don't think that "casual relief areas" are utilized nearly as much as they should be.

With the sidebar that "get disc golf off ball golf courses" wasn't up for discussion.
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  #20  
Old 06-03-2017, 04:38 PM
Steve West Steve West is offline
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If the penalty was "move back out of it", the risk could be maximized by locating the targets at one end of the sand traps. For example, Hole 16's could offer up to 71 feet of extra distance, instead of the 20 or 30 feet when the target is alongside the trap. Some of the fairway sand traps are hundreds of feet long, and could offer that much risk for landing in them, if the target was positioned to maximize that risk.
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