Go Back   Disc Golf Course Review > Equipment > Discs

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #21  
Old 03-15-2018, 05:22 PM
GripEnemy's Avatar
GripEnemy GripEnemy is offline
Thread_Killer :::crickets:::
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Years Playing: 17.6
Courses Played: 41
Throwing Style: RHBH
Posts: 3,951
Niced 695 Times in 394 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by elmexdela View Post
domey discs are worse is a general consensus
#weakdomegame
Sponsored Links
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 03-15-2018, 05:56 PM
armiller's Avatar
armiller armiller is offline
* Ace Member *
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: West Virginia
Years Playing: 4.5
Courses Played: 183
Throwing Style: RHBH
Posts: 3,138
Niced 669 Times in 444 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GripEnemy View Post
#weakdomegame
Agreed. It's all about the goldilocks dome.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 03-15-2018, 08:18 PM
BogeyNoMore's Avatar
BogeyNoMore BogeyNoMore is offline
* Ace Member *
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Walled Lake, MI
Years Playing: 15.4
Courses Played: 311
Throwing Style: RHBH
Posts: 9,790
Niced 2,130 Times in 1,058 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by atison View Post
Domey drivers usually mean the PLH is lower as the added curve of the dome brings the wing tip down which equates to less HSS.
I think this is pretty much why domey discs are often observed to be less stable, while flat-tops are typically seen to be more OS. The stability isn't so much a direct effect of the dominess/flatness, as it is the PLH. The domier a given run of a mold is, the lower the PLH tends to be. Conversely, the flatter a run is, the higher the PLH tends to be.

There may be exceptionally odd runs where discs pop top when cooling, somehow with minimal change to the wing edge (and the resuting change in the relative position of the PLH).

But for the most part, flatter tops have higher PLH's, and domey tops have lower PLH's... and that will impact stability more than the dominess/flatness itself does.

It's all about what happens when the disc cools.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 03-15-2018, 09:16 PM
Beener Beener is offline
Birdie Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Twin Cities
Courses Played: 9
Posts: 328
Niced 23 Times in 20 Posts
Default

I'll add this to the discussion: A logical explanation from the Disc Golf Review Archives : https://www.dgcoursereview.com/dgr/r...ualities.shtml
I. Dome Height – “Domey” vs. Flat

While there is a common belief that discs that have higher domes are more “flippy” than flatter discs (especially when they are variations of the same model), this is only partially true. Discs with a higher dome will generally be less high-speed stable than a flatter version of the same disc, but the high-domed disc will also be more apt to flex out if it gets turned. A flatter disc is more difficult to turn but is more likely to keep turning after the turn begins. This is due to the gyroscopic effect and can be illustrated by the physics example of a spinning bicycle wheel with handles.

If you equate the spinning wheel to the flat disc, you will see it is hard to turn the wheel off of its axis, but once it gets turning it will continue to turn farther in that direction. If you picture the spinning bicycle wheel where one side of the spokes is conical/triangular in shape, it will be easy to turn in one direction up to a point (and it will exert less gyroscopic forces) but it is also easier to turn back in the opposite direction. Late in a disc's flight it has lost a lot of its initial rotation and velocity and as the disc slows, a disc with a high dome will be more apt to stay in the air and fade back left. Wind will affect a disc with a higher dome more than a flatter version since the taller profile will be more affected by the wind.

Niced: (1)
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 03-15-2018, 09:50 PM
BrotherDave's Avatar
BrotherDave BrotherDave is offline
Verified Jurkface
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Macedonian Troll Farm
Years Playing: 12.2
Courses Played: 166
Throwing Style: RHBH
Posts: 15,056
Niced 2,229 Times in 1,044 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aim For The Chains View Post
There is no single rule for dome across all molds.

Some become more LSS or HSS while others less. Glide is meh..
Yeah, the consensus is there is no consensus if you ask me. The PLH is the only decent indicator when comparing discs of the same mold, especially if they're shaped the same (comparing the PLH of the same mold but different plastics is a dicier proposition depending on mold but if say a Star Firebird and Champ Firebird mold up similarly enough, the PLH is most useful. But some molds are dissimilar enough across different plastics to fly drastically different. That's why most if not all of Daredevil molds are the same molds but given a different name depending on the plastic used.)

When talking dome you're talking about a whole host of aerodynamics things at work which is way beyond my knowledge. Really subtle changes make big differences. Take Rocs for example. A Rancho molded Roc with decent dome is decently stable, especially in stiff KC Pro plastic. An Ontario molded Roc which is usually domey is the flippiest Roc there is usually, practically a wannabe Comet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by armiller View Post
I am curious about other golfers, though. In my experience it seems to be molds where I want glide, as mentioned above. Sure I like flat Zones and flat Firebirds, like the next guy. But some molds are just duds if PLH is too high or dome is too low. Which molds do you folks pay most attention to dome?
Well like in a Zone, I like the ESP puddle topped Zones. If I'm bagging a Zone it's for that freakish overstability so why not get the most freakishly OS kind? Same logic applies to Firebirds, Banshees, etc. Comets and Rocs and such, I try to go middling dome b/c a domey Comet can be slightly OS and flat can be too US. The King is one mold where domey is better too. A lot of the Trilogy drivers seem to be the opposite of the "flat = more OS" rule. Domey, high PLH Kings are way more versatile than flat Kings, which are basically rollers out the box.

Niced: (1)
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 03-16-2018, 03:23 AM
ILUVSMGS18 ILUVSMGS18 is offline
Double Eagle Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Keeseville, NY
Years Playing: 6.4
Courses Played: 2
Posts: 1,651
Niced 413 Times in 303 Posts
Default

So based in what I have found that works for me:
Flat = control, such as flat FireBirds and Roc3s.
Domey = distance, but also some unpredictably such as Destroyers and TeeBirds.

From what I've found if a disc is supposed to turn (such as a Tern or Destroyer), you want dome on it for it to fly true to it's numbers, but if a disc is supposed to resist turn (such as a FireBird or Gator), being flat is going to fly much closer to the numbers. TeeBirds are a weird anomaly as are PDs and ThunderBirds, it depends on the discs purpose, I prefer my TeeBirds doemy, but my PDs flat, most of the ThunderBirds I've thrown were domey, but one flat one was OS and the other was US, so I haven't been able to come to a consensus on it yet.

For certain purposes (such as rollers or OHs) I prefer flat discs, but unfortunately flat FireBirds, Beasts, and Valks are hard to find in my experience at least in Champ plastic.

Edit: If this seems a bit odd, it was 3 am when I was writing this.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 03-16-2018, 03:32 AM
Meillo's Avatar
Meillo Meillo is offline
Birdie Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Ulm, Germany
Years Playing: 2.9
Posts: 455
Niced 208 Times in 137 Posts
Default

I wonder if a puddle top behaves like a dome physically ... Dome means, that the air needs to take a longer way above than beyond the disc, thus leading to uplift and thus increases glide. In a puddle top, I think, the air will flow along the disc surface, thus having a longer way than with a flat top, thus having the same effect than with a mild dome. (On the underside of the disc the air flow is different, because the rim has a sharp edge, where the air flow breaks and takes the shortcut straight to the rim on the other side.) Thus I wonder if a puddle topped disc has more glide than a flat topped ... at least theoretically, because the puddle topped will probably have the higher PLH, which decreases glide ...

And in regard to Beener's quoted text, the puddle top has a greater gyroscopic effect, even more than a flat top, and much more than a domey disc.

Wow ... so complex, these little spinning discs! ;-)
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 03-16-2018, 11:02 AM
wolfmandragon's Avatar
wolfmandragon wolfmandragon is offline
* Ace Member *
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Morristown, TN
Years Playing: 5.8
Courses Played: 19
Throwing Style: RHBH
Posts: 2,453
Niced 1,005 Times in 581 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrotherDave View Post
An Ontario molded Roc which is usually domey is the flippiest Roc there is usually, practically a wannabe Comet.
Where are these understable Comets I keep hearing of?
I own 5 and have thrown others, and apart from a beat, puddle top ESP, I have yet to see any high speed turn.
Even my somewhat beat X doesnt turn.


...
Was not the Comet designed to fly like an Ontario Roc anyway? Seems I read that somewhere on these boards

Last edited by wolfmandragon; 03-16-2018 at 11:06 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 03-16-2018, 11:17 AM
ian.w ian.w is offline
Birdie Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Years Playing: 12.4
Courses Played: 22
Throwing Style: LHBH
Posts: 446
Niced 99 Times in 61 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfmandragon View Post
Where are these understable Comets I keep hearing of?
My MJ comet is more towards understable compared to my Zs and X. I was disappointed honestly. It’s flat.
Reply With Quote
 

  #30  
Old 03-16-2018, 12:38 PM
hugheshilton's Avatar
hugheshilton hugheshilton is offline
* Ace Member *
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Beaverton, OR
Years Playing: 9.1
Courses Played: 44
Throwing Style: RHBH
Posts: 2,753
Niced 666 Times in 389 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by slowplastic View Post
The one instance that people give where DX was more OS was the earlier DX Thunderbirds...I have not thrown or examined one. That would be an interesting case to see what the PLH is like compared to star/champ.
The FR DX Thunderbirds have 3 characteristics that seemed to make them more OS:

1) High PLH (probably the most important thing thing)
2) Very concave wing (moreso than other plastics)
3) Board flat to slight puddle top with very little shoulder

Aerodynamically, the concavity of the underside of the wing affects the airflow around the bottom of the disc which can also affect stability. Generally a more concave wing increases stability. This is easily observable in my experience in Destroyers. Destroyers with a straighter wing such as GStars or Philos tend to be less overstable than those with more concave wings.

Niced: (2)
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Is there a consensus on best putting style? gammaxgoblin Technique & Strategy 30 07-03-2018 07:52 PM
Mando Consensus BrotherDave Course Design 67 11-26-2014 12:56 PM
Pred 101: PLH, Color, Old Mold vs. New Mold, Z, X, ESP and FLX Plastics SirRaph Discs 26 09-18-2013 10:57 PM
2010 USDGC Roc*ODOC*Sanny Mold NOT Plus mold*Only 225 molded JustSayin' The Marketplace 25 12-03-2010 12:07 PM
DX Stingray Dome vs. Star Stingray Dome vs. other low profile disc frasnow Discs 13 07-16-2010 12:09 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:48 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.10
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.