#161  
Old 07-13-2019, 02:26 PM
slowplastic slowplastic is offline
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My problems are in the throw. I can't figure out how to keep my arm from riding up my back arm and get a more flat/around my body swing plane with a normal follow through. I'll just keep working on it and throwing more. Thanks
If you check out the last page of my thread, this post, I have finally got my swing plane on track: https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forum...&postcount=795

Basically it feels not level but out/up like the golf swing plane I was explaining to you and the "swing is not flat" SW has been talking about, that really helped me.

It's like if you have that baseball swing path on a waist high pitch that you drive slightly upward...even if you connect right on the nose of the ball you are driving it on like a 10 degree upward line drive. Compare that to a novice player that is chopping down at the ball and hitting the bottom half of it to pop it up over the infielders. Yes the ball is going upward off the bat in both cases, but from fundamentally different reasons. That upward launch angle line drive that is properly leveraged will have way more velocity on the ball, and you likely know how it feels to drive the bat away from you like this.
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  #162  
Old 07-13-2019, 02:29 PM
deyo7 deyo7 is offline
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I know. I'm not trying to do anything other than just move around a bit pre swing, stay loose. I'm not trying to do a drill or get correct weight transfer or anything. I can weight transfer fine when I want. Just not so good during the actual throw, haha. I can do the drills great. But their not transferring to the throwing... as always very frustrating.

My problems are in the throw. I can't figure out how to keep my arm from riding up my back arm and get a more flat/around my body swing plane with a normal follow through. I'll just keep working on it and throwing more. Thanks
Don't disregard what SW is saying here. Your throw mimics your pre-swing mistakes exactly. You aren't turning with your hips, not weight shifting correctly on either foot, and this is causing you to hug yourself during the backswing. Your swing plane issues, or any other issues you think you may have aren't going to fix themselves until you build the foundation. Watch how SW transitions in the video and do the same. If you do it pre-throw correctly, your brain will better know where it ought to be during the throw.
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  #163  
Old 07-13-2019, 02:41 PM
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Originally Posted by slowplastic View Post
If you check out the last page of my thread, this post, I have finally got my swing plane on track: https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forum...&postcount=795

Basically it feels not level but out/up like the golf swing plane I was explaining to you and the "swing is not flat" SW has been talking about, that really helped me.

It's like if you have that baseball swing path on a waist high pitch that you drive slightly upward...even if you connect right on the nose of the ball you are driving it on like a 10 degree upward line drive. Compare that to a novice player that is chopping down at the ball and hitting the bottom half of it to pop it up over the infielders. Yes the ball is going upward off the bat in both cases, but from fundamentally different reasons. That upward launch angle line drive that is properly leveraged will have way more velocity on the ball, and you likely know how it feels to drive the bat away from you like this.
I will check out your thread this weekend. And thank you so much for this info and the last post you made. I'm sure I'll understand it and be able to put into practice, but not right now.

I'm just drowning right now in so many different ideas and things I need to work on. It's disorienting and all consuming and I can't even sleep some nights because I'm just thinking about this stuff too much, haha. It's crazy. I need to slow down a bit, stop reading so much, stop coming on here and getting into discussions so much. There's so much great help and info, but I'm just not able to process it all. I feel like I need to pace myself and just take it slower and just try to have fun, instead of being so hardcore with my swing mechanics. Just work on 1-2 things a time when I go out and other than that, just try to have fun and play more.

And the more I watch Philo Brathwaite, the more I realize, he should be my swing idol right now, not Simon, Eagle or other freak of nature throwers. Philo makes me realize how easy and simple the throw can be and just focus on smooth and sharp, not trying to hit a homerun every throw and be the best. Not that he isn't incredible! But his throw is all about being simple and just get the disc out there. A lot like SW is trying to teach me/us.

I appreciate all the help and I'll get back to reading more later today or tomorrow and then get back to work. I appreciate all you guys and your help. You guys are great! Thanks
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  #164  
Old 07-13-2019, 02:55 PM
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Originally Posted by deyo7 View Post
Don't disregard what SW is saying here. Your throw mimics your pre-swing mistakes exactly. You aren't turning with your hips, not weight shifting correctly on either foot, and this is causing you to hug yourself during the backswing. Your swing plane issues, or any other issues you think you may have aren't going to fix themselves until you build the foundation. Watch how SW transitions in the video and do the same. If you do it pre-throw correctly, your brain will better know where it ought to be during the throw.
DEFINITELY not disregarding what SW is saying. But I'm literally telling you, I'm not trying to mimic good swing mechanics in my pre shot routine. I'm just trying to move around and stay loose. I do my hammer/sledge swings early in my warm up. Then move to perfect weight shift stand still/1 foot throws. But when i'm throwing for distance, I'm just moving around to stay loose. Atheletes don't do the exact swing they do for the real hit ALL THE TIME! Watch golfers or baseball players. Some of them do the exact movement and path they want, and others are just moving their arms or body around. To stay loose. You don't HAVE to mimic the exact swing you want to throw well. Some people do, others don't. I NEVER have a pre swing routine in golf that looks like my actual swing, and I am a great golfer with a great swing. Nothing to read into here. Just trying to stay loose in the hot sun.

I use SW's information ALL the time in my warm ups and one leg throws, but it's just not transitioning to the actual throw with power yet. That is WHY i'm practicing all the time... to try and get those ideas to become part of my full power throw. And it's not working yet. Hopefully this summer at some point, it will start working. Until then, I'm obviously going to keep making tons of mistakes and not doing well. I just started playing this spring.
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  #165  
Old 07-13-2019, 03:28 PM
deyo7 deyo7 is offline
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Originally Posted by SuperWookie View Post
DEFINITELY not disregarding what SW is saying. But I'm literally telling you, I'm not trying to mimic good swing mechanics in my pre shot routine. I'm just trying to move around and stay loose. I do my hammer/sledge swings early in my warm up. Then move to perfect weight shift stand still/1 foot throws. But when i'm throwing for distance, I'm just moving around to stay loose. Atheletes don't do the exact swing they do for the real hit ALL THE TIME! Watch golfers or baseball players. Some of them do the exact movement and path they want, and others are just moving their arms or body around. To stay loose. You don't HAVE to mimic the exact swing you want to throw well. Some people do, others don't. I NEVER have a pre swing routine in golf that looks like my actual swing, and I am a great golfer with a great swing. Nothing to read into here. Just trying to stay loose in the hot sun.

I use SW's information ALL the time in my warm ups and one leg throws, but it's just not transitioning to the actual throw with power yet. That is WHY i'm practicing all the time... to try and get those ideas to become part of my full power throw. And it's not working yet. Hopefully this summer at some point, it will start working. Until then, I'm obviously going to keep making tons of mistakes and not doing well. I just started playing this spring.
No worries, just making sure you weren't disregarding because I saw the same mistakes in the throw as the pre-shot routine that he mentioned.

It takes time
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  #166  
Old 07-14-2019, 01:25 AM
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sidewinder22 sidewinder22 is offline
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Originally Posted by SuperWookie View Post
I know. I'm not trying to do anything other than just move around a bit pre swing, stay loose. I'm not trying to do a drill or get correct weight transfer or anything. I can weight transfer fine when I want. Just not so good during the actual throw, haha. I can do the drills great. But their not transferring to the throwing... as always very frustrating.

My problems are in the throw. I can't figure out how to keep my arm from riding up my back arm and get a more flat/around my body swing plane with a normal follow through. I'll just keep working on it and throwing more. Thanks
Your arm/disc is swinging all wrong there, even just loosening up it's all disconnected from your body, and you end up throwing like that. Your arm/disc is all curled up or riding up in that first pic of your pre-swing.

Watch McBeth and my pre-swing routine/address/finish position and do that before every single throw: https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forum...d.php?t=134167
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  #167  
Old 07-15-2019, 11:16 AM
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Definitely don't pull back. When you swing a baseball bat it ends up following through behind you...but you're thinking about swinging through and away from you at the acceleration point. If you are centered around your spine then your shoulders will turn fully around you the correct way.
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Watch the rear knee/femur, and the rear shoulder for that recoil. From what I can tell in proper throws, the rear shoulder/arm stops as the throwing arm is engaging and about to the hit point. Then the rear femur is fully recoiling as the throwing arm is straightened out, like 30 degrees past release. So basically that leg/hip recoil is starting to happen as you are beginning the hit point so you can pull the disc through and it is fully recoiling at full arm extension/release after you have got that disc out of there.

It might be different places/feel from golf and baseball because you're throwing the object and there is one arm vs. two. But concept is the same.
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Yes, I shouldn't use the word "pull". The right shoulder and left shoulder should be moving equal and opposite through body rotation. The right shoulder should not act as an independent muscle/hinge.
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Originally Posted by sidewinder22 View Post
Your arm/disc is swinging all wrong there, even just loosening up it's all disconnected from your body, and you end up throwing like that. Your arm/disc is all curled up or riding up in that first pic of your pre-swing.

Watch McBeth and my pre-swing routine/address/finish position and do that before every single throw: https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forum...d.php?t=134167
Once I get back out there, I will try to remember to do this EVERY shot before I throw Thanks
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  #168  
Old 07-15-2019, 02:05 PM
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billyjacko billyjacko is offline
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If I were you, I'd focus all my effort in not rounding. Beto drill is always helpful with this. One piece of advice that helped me in my early days was to "get out of the way fo the disc." Watch how Eagle looks like he pulls the disc straight through his body. You want the disc to travel into the body, then rotate outward. You're arcing the disc, and that saps all leverage. Nose angle and fallow through are things that will work themselves out as you concentrate on bigger fundemental blocks of your form.
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  #169  
Old 07-16-2019, 10:42 AM
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Originally Posted by billyjacko View Post
If I were you, I'd focus all my effort in not rounding. Beto drill is always helpful with this. One piece of advice that helped me in my early days was to "get out of the way fo the disc." Watch how Eagle looks like he pulls the disc straight through his body. You want the disc to travel into the body, then rotate outward. You're arcing the disc, and that saps all leverage. Nose angle and fallow through are things that will work themselves out as you concentrate on bigger fundemental blocks of your form.
Yeah, I hear ya man! I'd LOVE to be able to do that. Just snap my finger and all of a sudden be able to actually throw well! If it were only that simple It's the number one problem I have, and nothing is helping. I've watched every video and probably read almost every article about how my arm is supposed to be, and why I shouldn't round. I've done the Beto drill tons of times, and still nothing is working. If it were just as simple as "Just Do It", I wouldn't be here on this forum asking for help all the time. It's the bane of my disc golf existence, haha. Until I can somehow actually do this, I'll never throw well and everything is just about meaningless. I try so hard when I'm out there practicing, but nothing is clicking yet. Hopefully I'll get there sometime soon, or I feel like I'm going to drive myself insane trying.

If I could figure out how to sling the disc out properly, all the other stuff would just be icing on the cake and would continue to add more and more distance, accuracy and consistency. I'm almost 100% sure that once I do figure out how to throw it correctly with the lag and proper upper and lower arm path, I'll be able to throw 450-500' fw's even with the rest of my form being poor. Those other things will just continue to add even more. That's one advantage I do have of being super tall and strong. I can hit/throw a ball really far, even with poor form in other parts of the throw/swing/hit. But I need to get to that point first, and then once I do, continue to work on fine tuning the details of balance, weight transfer and mechanics.

Thanks for the idea. But so far, the Beto drill isn't doing anything for me. I do it every time I go out into the field. I do them during my one foot balance throws in the beginning. Any other ideas on how to describe doing it might help, but at this point, I'm not even sure anyone can help me. I might just have to practice forever and keep trying to feel it and actually do it before it happens. I'm not sure there's any other way people CAN describe how to do it. I do appreciate all of you helping and one day hope I can help others. Thanks
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  #170  
Old 07-16-2019, 01:09 PM
UhhNegative UhhNegative is online now
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I've never been a fan of the Beto drill although it certainly clicks for some people. It's just strange taking the disc from no momentum to ejecting outward. The momentum of the disc coming in towards your body helps in feeling where to eject it.

Personally, I think learning a wide rail reachback is the easiest way to feel the difference between a rounded throw and an inside-out swing. Easiest way to feel a difference is to over-exaggerate it and then dial back from there (Paul McBeth quote/Seabas quote I don't remember which). If you try to throw from a wide rail reachback and the disc goes way right, you know are turning the hips/shoulders early and leaving the disc behind. It will feel different like you almost have to wait for the disc to get to the power pocket before you start trying to eject it.

This is in contrast to two handed swings where you end up with a "collapsed" front arm at the hit point (narrow upper arm angle) while in a disc golf throw the upper arm angle is much larger.






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