#81  
Old 08-28-2019, 12:33 PM
JC17393 JC17393 is offline
* Ace Member *
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Years Playing: 21.8
Courses Played: 150
Throwing Style: LHBH
Posts: 7,737
Niced 3,540 Times in 1,484 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Putt for D'oh View Post
I think the score keeping can be done without constant internet connection, as long as one can connect eventually for the transfer.
If there's a dedicated app (like udisc has), then yes, that's likely the case. If it continues to be the browser-based scorekeeping that the PDGA has now, then internet connectivity is essential to store the scores as there's no native storage that I'm aware of. However, once you're logged in to the scoring site, the actual amount of data needed to send each hole's scores is minimal. You really don't need that strong of a signal to post the scores. I had 1X signal in the woods this past weekend and scores still posted at that tee without delay.

But even if signal is too sparse in one spot, that's where the paper backup would allow for scores to continue to be recorded and then they could be updated digitally once the group moves into an area with better signal.
Sponsored Links
Reply With Quote
  #82  
Old 08-28-2019, 01:25 PM
Dcinmd Dcinmd is offline
Birdie Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Ashburn, VA
Posts: 314
Niced 207 Times in 101 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JC17393 View Post
At NTs and majors, they play tee time rounds which render the scoreport needless. Going electronic there makes all kinds of sense. But I don't believe that the average B or C tier with shotgun starts need to be moving away from the scoreport anytime soon. Sure, it might be possible to do everything electronically, but IMO it takes more than 4-5 clicks to display groupings and hole assignments on the tournament manager. At least it does if you don't like the way it assigns things, which I never do.

Good TDs know their courses and know where they need to be starting certain groups/divisions in order to get the best flow (not to mention accommodating certain divisions in terms of walks to starting holes) and the online group generator uses a default order that will rarely match the need. I think it's still much faster and more efficient to re-sort groups for new rounds on a scoreport.
90% of Am worlds was a shot-gun start. On two round day players where scrambling with their phones to see the starting hole for the second rounds. There where a few hiccups but for the most part it beat 72 players sitting around a scoreport.

The bigger issue than starting hole was postponed starting times, which typically spread via word of mouth, non-electronically.
Reply With Quote
  #83  
Old 08-28-2019, 01:27 PM
Dcinmd Dcinmd is offline
Birdie Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Ashburn, VA
Posts: 314
Niced 207 Times in 101 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JC17393 View Post
If there's a dedicated app (like udisc has), then yes, that's likely the case. If it continues to be the browser-based scorekeeping that the PDGA has now, then internet connectivity is essential to store the scores as there's no native storage that I'm aware of. However, once you're logged in to the scoring site, the actual amount of data needed to send each hole's scores is minimal. You really don't need that strong of a signal to post the scores. I had 1X signal in the woods this past weekend and scores still posted at that tee without delay.
Yes this can be a huge electronic issue. The biggest issue is the initial log-in.
Reply With Quote
  #84  
Old 08-28-2019, 01:42 PM
ToddL ToddL is offline
Eagle Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Greenville, SC
Years Playing: 23.4
Courses Played: 145
Throwing Style: RHBH
Posts: 951
Niced 320 Times in 156 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JC17393 View Post
If there's a dedicated app (like udisc has), then yes, that's likely the case. If it continues to be the browser-based scorekeeping that the PDGA has now, then internet connectivity is essential to store the scores as there's no native storage that I'm aware of. However, once you're logged in to the scoring site, the actual amount of data needed to send each hole's scores is minimal. You really don't need that strong of a signal to post the scores. I had 1X signal in the woods this past weekend and scores still posted at that tee without delay.

But even if signal is too sparse in one spot, that's where the paper backup would allow for scores to continue to be recorded and then they could be updated digitally once the group moves into an area with better signal.
The website downloads all the data for the course at the beginning, and only uses data to push scores from the phone to the website. In the case of no signal, the browser will retain the data and try to push it again at a later time. As long as you don't do anything silly like close your browser window, it should hold on to that data for as long as is needed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dcinmd View Post
90% of Am worlds was a shot-gun start. On two round day players where scrambling with their phones to see the starting hole for the second rounds. There where a few hiccups but for the most part it beat 72 players sitting around a scoreport.

The bigger issue than starting hole was postponed starting times, which typically spread via word of mouth, non-electronically.
As of 2018, Am Worlds operated with scoreport boards. The TD at course A would record the scores, manually do all the addition, reshuffle the board, and then drive the board to course B. At course B, that TD would double-check the shuffle and then write out scorecards for all the players. Hopefully the TD from A would get there with plenty of time to spare so TD-B could write scorecards and players could see their starting holes with time to warm up. Additionally, each course would require an Asst TD to receive their incoming board while their outgoing board was being driven away.
It worked, but it had a lot of moving parts and a lot of potential for error.

In 2019, the PDGA went entirely electronic with starting holes (but still paper scorecards for scoring). The TDs at each course would enter their scores into TM, and the scoring office would set the starting holes for the next round. Ideally, this all took place pretty quickly, and the players would know their starting holes before they even got to the next course. There were certainly some hiccups, and every round there were some players who couldn't figure out how to use the website, but really it went fairly smoothly. Each TD at a course would have to refresh the results page repeatedly while waiting for the new starting holes to appear, and then rush to write out scorecards. They'd still use a scoreport to organize the scorecards, but that's just 18 slips of paper instead of 90.

Niced: (1)
Reply With Quote
  #85  
Old 08-28-2019, 01:50 PM
JC17393 JC17393 is offline
* Ace Member *
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Years Playing: 21.8
Courses Played: 150
Throwing Style: LHBH
Posts: 7,737
Niced 3,540 Times in 1,484 Posts
Default

From an organizing standpoint, I would never want to give up the scoreport in a shotgun start round. Forget the ease/difficulty of sorting the board vs using the tournament manager, or the ease of players finding out their starting holes. I want the scoreport for one reason only...distributing the scorecards for the round. I can put the board out with the scorecards and let the players take the cards from there. What is the alternative if there's no scoreport, reading off names aloud and/or handing scorecards off one-by-one? Yuck.

Niced: (1)
Reply With Quote
  #86  
Old 08-28-2019, 01:58 PM
ToddL ToddL is offline
Eagle Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Greenville, SC
Years Playing: 23.4
Courses Played: 145
Throwing Style: RHBH
Posts: 951
Niced 320 Times in 156 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JC17393 View Post
From an organizing standpoint, I would never want to give up the scoreport in a shotgun start round. Forget the ease/difficulty of sorting the board vs using the tournament manager, or the ease of players finding out their starting holes. I want the scoreport for one reason only...distributing the scorecards for the round. I can put the board out with the scorecards and let the players take the cards from there. What is the alternative if there's no scoreport, reading off names aloud and/or handing scorecards off one-by-one? Yuck.
If you're using PDGALive for scorekeeping, then you don't have to pass out scorecards, and there's no need for a scoreport at all.

When you jump in 100%, it's a fully-fledged tournament management system that doesn't require any paper at all. If you jump in only 50%, it might be easier, might be harder. But overall, there are a ton of options available to TDs now, and each TD can try to make the best decision for his particular tournament on his particular course.
Reply With Quote
  #87  
Old 08-28-2019, 02:09 PM
JC17393 JC17393 is offline
* Ace Member *
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Years Playing: 21.8
Courses Played: 150
Throwing Style: LHBH
Posts: 7,737
Niced 3,540 Times in 1,484 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ToddL View Post
If you're using PDGALive for scorekeeping, then you don't have to pass out scorecards, and there's no need for a scoreport at all.

When you jump in 100%, it's a fully-fledged tournament management system that doesn't require any paper at all. If you jump in only 50%, it might be easier, might be harder. But overall, there are a ton of options available to TDs now, and each TD can try to make the best decision for his particular tournament on his particular course.
I'm all for doing electronic scoring but if being 100% in means entirely paperless, I can't envision my events ever getting there. Regardless of how ubiquitous smart phones are and how willing the players are to buy into doing their score keeping electronically, I would still want a paper card kept by each group as a back up should technology fail.

Niced: (2)
Reply With Quote
  #88  
Old 08-28-2019, 02:14 PM
DavidSauls's Avatar
DavidSauls DavidSauls is offline
* Ace Member *
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Newberry, SC
Years Playing: 24.3
Courses Played: 125
Posts: 15,088
Niced 3,282 Times in 1,451 Posts
Default

At 2012 Am Worlds, the scoreport was an hour late getting to the afternoon's course. No idea why; I just recall mulling around in 98 degree heat, waiting.

Which I offer as acknowledgement that paper/manual processing isn't risk-free, either.
Reply With Quote
  #89  
Old 08-28-2019, 02:17 PM
Meillo's Avatar
Meillo Meillo is offline
Birdie Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Ulm, Germany
Years Playing: 2.9
Posts: 455
Niced 207 Times in 136 Posts
Default

If you don't have score uploads (i.e. internet connection) after each hole then you need a controlled client app or the whole group each taking score redundantly with their own devices, otherwise you cannot prevent the scoretaker modifying the scores just before uploading.
Reply With Quote
 

  #90  
Old 08-28-2019, 02:23 PM
ballgolfconvert ballgolfconvert is offline
Bogey Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Years Playing: 0.8
Courses Played: 3
Throwing Style: RHBH
Posts: 81
Niced 58 Times in 35 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dcinmd View Post
90% of Am worlds was a shot-gun start. On two round day players where scrambling with their phones to see the starting hole for the second rounds. There where a few hiccups but for the most part it beat 72 players sitting around a scoreport.

The bigger issue than starting hole was postponed starting times, which typically spread via word of mouth, non-electronically.
72 players sitting around a scoreport is actually the best part of tourneys.

Niced: (3)
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Apps for I-phone Wildbuck General Disc Golf Chat 17 06-29-2011 06:00 PM
iphone/itouch Scorecard Apps. Usher Other Gear 33 01-10-2011 09:52 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:11 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.10
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.