#81  
Old 08-28-2019, 01:43 PM
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Originally Posted by biscoe View Post
I did not mean to imply all people are that way if I did so, merely that the trend in our culture at the very least is that way.
I understood you but didn't reply very clearly; I was saying that I don't think that our culture is trending this way. I would be very open to evidence saying that it is, but I think Economists have shown that our perceptions of how the larger world is changing is hit or miss, so I don't want to accept that our culture is changing that way without seeing a good bit of data on the topic. With that said, you could very well be right; I'm simply hesitant to accept this.

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My saying I can't think of a great open Par 5 is a far cry from saying good open holes can't exist. Obviously they can and do. IMO the enormous majority of them are Par 4's however.
This idea is intriguing. What, in your mind, makes this true? In other words, what differentiates an open par 4 from an open par 5 (other than length) that makes the majority of good, open, multi-shot holes par 4s instead of 5s?
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  #82  
Old 08-28-2019, 01:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Hyzer Ale View Post
I like par to be around 69 for championship courses. I feel that par 3s (when challenging and fair) are more apart of Disc Golf than they are ball golf.

7 par 3s
7 par 4s
4 par 5s
I agree. I think this is the sweet spot. Somewhere in the 65-70 range.
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  #83  
Old 08-28-2019, 01:47 PM
biscoe biscoe is online now
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Originally Posted by Ryan P. View Post

This idea is intriguing. What, in your mind, makes this true? In other words, what differentiates an open par 4 from an open par 5 (other than length) that makes the majority of good, open, multi-shot holes par 4s instead of 5s?
Length is really the answer... the more shots the more it becomes skewed to the long thrower to reduce it to simplest terms.
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Old 08-28-2019, 02:04 PM
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thanks for all the thoughts, biscoe! i hadn't even considered land availability as a factor. plus this one made me lol.

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My saying I can't think of a great open Par 5 is a far cry from saying good open holes can't exist. Obviously they can and do. IMO the enormous majority of them are Par 4's however.

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Old 08-28-2019, 03:39 PM
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Originally Posted by biscoe View Post
Length is really the answer... the more shots the more it becomes skewed to the long thrower to reduce it to simplest terms.
I don't think that's a good answer. that assumes there are no obstacles at all, and that's not a good hole. I would imagine we both agree there. By open, I don't mean no trees/obstacles. I mean anything not considered "in the woods". Multi-shot holes in the open must have obstacles, or they are silly. But I want to see more good, risk/reward par 4s and 5s.

I'll get to see your course on video in a few weeks at the USWDGC. I'm sure I'll learn more about your philosophy then. Thanks for your thoughts.
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  #86  
Old 08-28-2019, 04:15 PM
biscoe biscoe is online now
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I'll get to see your course on video in a few weeks at the USWDGC. I'm sure I'll learn more about your philosophy then. Thanks for your thoughts.
Yep. I will have designed and chosen the setup for both courses the FPO will play. (Loriella is the other.) I have made/am making a bunch of changes at HH. A few are prompted by residual rough ground from the 9 month monsoon season we had but most are tweaks to hopefully make it play more appropriately for the women. It will be 7999 ft and Par 65- 7 3's and 11 4's. All the 3's are gettable. A few of the Par 4's are not going to yield many birdies- one of those I preserved simply due to it being an iconic hole here and another because the amount of labor to change it would have been prohibitive. Two Par 5's did not make the cut- one because I wanted the space for something else and one primarily for flow reasons.

There is only one shot on the course where the big arms can let go with zero consequence and I left that as it is because I want to see them do it. Everything else has a price for making an error although the size of the error and the price vary quite a bit.

There will be drone footage of the courses on the Spotsy DG youtube within a few days.
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Old 08-28-2019, 04:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Ryan P. View Post
I don't think that's a good answer. that assumes there are no obstacles at all, and that's not a good hole. I would imagine we both agree there. By open, I don't mean no trees/obstacles. I mean anything not considered "in the woods". Multi-shot holes in the open must have obstacles, or they are silly. But I want to see more good, risk/reward par 4s and 5s.
We have been using differing meanings for open- i mean stuff that is very sparsely treed if at all, like most of Winthrop say. What you are referring to I would call semi-open.
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  #88  
Old 08-28-2019, 04:22 PM
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Heritage Hills was a par 71.
https://www.dgcoursereview.com/course.php?id=10070
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Old 08-28-2019, 04:40 PM
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Originally Posted by biscoe View Post
We have been using differing meanings for open- i mean stuff that is very sparsely treed if at all, like most of Winthrop say. What you are referring to I would call semi-open.
Ah, makes a lot more sense. I defined my term earlier, I guess you missed it. I said open was anything with grass covering the ground. Thanks for your thoughts.

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  #90  
Old 08-28-2019, 04:42 PM
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Ryan P. Ryan P. is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by biscoe View Post
Yep. I will have designed and chosen the setup for both courses the FPO will play. (Loriella is the other.) I have made/am making a bunch of changes at HH. A few are prompted by residual rough ground from the 9 month monsoon season we had but most are tweaks to hopefully make it play more appropriately for the women. It will be 7999 ft and Par 65- 7 3's and 11 4's. All the 3's are gettable. A few of the Par 4's are not going to yield many birdies- one of those I preserved simply due to it being an iconic hole here and another because the amount of labor to change it would have been prohibitive. Two Par 5's did not make the cut- one because I wanted the space for something else and one primarily for flow reasons.

There is only one shot on the course where the big arms can let go with zero consequence and I left that as it is because I want to see them do it. Everything else has a price for making an error although the size of the error and the price vary quite a bit.

There will be drone footage of the courses on the Spotsy DG youtube within a few days.
Great to hear. I'm okay with a minimal amount of completely wide open shots on a course, so I don't mind one at all. Those with length in their drives should be rewarded in some way.
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