#161  
Old 09-03-2019, 04:15 PM
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JTacoma03 JTacoma03 is offline
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Originally Posted by Cgkdisc View Post
I'm curious if any of the media teams have figured out if there's any course fatigue where viewership has gone down in the following year(s) on a course even if the groups playing them continue to be top rated.
I think proving that correlation would be nearly impossible, as it connects an assumption (course fatigue) with an action (delta in views). Even if you found a tournament where viewership decreased, you'd have to interview the people who didn't watch to confirm their reasoning, and since we don't know who those people are I don't see a way to conclude any intention.

The best you could do is to look at the "tail" of the videos year over year - after the initial spike in views when it's fresh, how steep is the slope of the decline after 3 days? After 7? After 30? etc. You'd then have to control for increase in subscriber base in the preceding 12 months. You'd then have to find a way to weed out whether it was due to better crew, better techniques, etc.

Basically, I don't believe we have the data to give an answer with any real degree of confidence, though at the same time I do recognize that our courses are the weakest part of the tour.
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  #162  
Old 09-03-2019, 06:29 PM
biscoe biscoe is offline
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Originally Posted by DiscFifty View Post
I still have a bad taste about Jomez allegedly charging the local organization $2000.00 to film the VPO Tournament in Texas and then also apparently getting all ad revenue as well. I've always said media companies should be bidding, etc, for the right to cover an event. Glad this is happening now.
If it was $2k you got off light in my experience.
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  #163  
Old 09-03-2019, 07:15 PM
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JTacoma03 JTacoma03 is offline
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Originally Posted by DiscFifty View Post
I still have a bad taste about Jomez allegedly charging the local organization $2000.00 to film the VPO Tournament in Texas and then also apparently getting all ad revenue as well. I've always said media companies should be bidding, etc, for the right to cover an event. Glad this is happening now.
Serious question-

Can you lay out the argument for the event getting a cut of the ad revenue by default?
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  #164  
Old 09-03-2019, 07:40 PM
jvphobic jvphobic is offline
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My understanding was there was an issue between VPO and Jomez in that one company sponsored the event and another the ads in the coverage.

I see blame on both sides. The event needed to be more clear in what was offered for the money they paid. And Jomez should have made it more clear as to what they planned on doing and including.

Welcome to the media world today.

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  #165  
Old 09-03-2019, 07:54 PM
biscoe biscoe is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JTacoma03 View Post
Serious question-

Can you lay out the argument for the event getting a cut of the ad revenue by default?
I know you weren't asking me but I want to play. I cannot lay out an argument for the event getting a cut of the ad revenue. It does seem however that when the media groups get paid upfront and get all that revenue they have effectively managed to shift all the risk in the proposition away from themselves. Kudos to them on savvy business I suppose.

We also have heard repeatedly from jvd (pretty sure that's where i got it- apologies to jvd if not) that the manufacturers are growing tired of footing the bill for media. Seems to me at some point the end user is going to need to pay but again I am an absolute neophyte in the workings of online media. Is free video a sustainable model with such a limited audience?

Is there an over-saturation of media crews already?
How much ad revenue does one round of coverage have the opportunity to generate?

I was quoted a figure in the neighborhood of $10k from one group to come film an event. Under that figure I would have had the rights to the advertising revenue but I would also have had to sell said advertising. Does that math potentially add up for an organizer?

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  #166  
Old 09-03-2019, 08:28 PM
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DavidSauls DavidSauls is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DiscFifty View Post
I've always said media companies should be bidding, etc, for the right to cover an event. Glad this is happening now.
What is the value of that right?

I'll admit to being both clueless, and skeptical. I'd have to know (1) how much does it cost the media company to cover an event and (2) how much ad revenue might they anticipate?

If #1 is more than #2, the value of the media rights would be nothing. Someone's going to have to pay them to show up.

If #2 is more than #1, then a portion of that difference is what they should be able to bid. My clueless side doesn't know, but my skeptical side thinks that it isn't.
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  #167  
Old 09-03-2019, 08:57 PM
jvphobic jvphobic is offline
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Originally Posted by DavidSauls View Post
What is the value of that right?

I'll admit to being both clueless, and skeptical. I'd have to know (1) how much does it cost the media company to cover an event and (2) how much ad revenue might they anticipate?

If #1 is more than #2, the value of the media rights would be nothing. Someone's going to have to pay them to show up.

If #2 is more than #1, then a portion of that difference is what they should be able to bid. My clueless side doesn't know, but my skeptical side thinks that it isn't.
It is very hard to judge value. But... some companies have thousands of dollars a month coming in to Patreon. Plus a thousand or so for commercials. Plus another thousand or so from YouTube revenue on a popular video, combined with big events which will have residual viewing for years to come. There is some money to be made certainly.

I mean, biscoe said he got a quote for 10K to have all the ads under his control, that probably gives you a good estimate as to what some media companies have the potential to make if that is what they are trying to charge.

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  #168  
Old 09-03-2019, 09:30 PM
Casey 1988 Casey 1988 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JTacoma03 View Post
I think proving that correlation would be nearly impossible, as it connects an assumption (course fatigue) with an action (delta in views). Even if you found a tournament where viewership decreased, you'd have to interview the people who didn't watch to confirm their reasoning, and since we don't know who those people are I don't see a way to conclude any intention.

The best you could do is to look at the "tail" of the videos year over year - after the initial spike in views when it's fresh, how steep is the slope of the decline after 3 days? After 7? After 30? etc. You'd then have to control for increase in subscriber base in the preceding 12 months. You'd then have to find a way to weed out whether it was due to better crew, better techniques, etc.

Basically, I don't believe we have the data to give an answer with any real degree of confidence, though at the same time I do recognize that our courses are the weakest part of the tour.
Most of that is due to Steve Dodge being Grounded to having to have live coverage.

If the next phase of the Disc Golf Pro Tour were not Grounded to having live coverage, then they could do what a few events in the PDGA National Tour do as they do not get cell coverage and are not live via Smashbox or whoever is doing the live feed. This way we could have tournaments in places like Highbridge Hill on the Pro Course and the next most difficult for a cool change up course in the middle day of tournament in Wisconsin should the course(s) survive or be back again at Minnesota Majetsic as a Disc Golf Pro Tour event.
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  #169  
Old 09-03-2019, 09:42 PM
jvphobic jvphobic is offline
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Originally Posted by Casey 1988 View Post
Most of that is due to Steve Dodge being Grounded to having to have live coverage.

If the next phase of the Disc Golf Pro Tour were not Grounded to having live coverage, then they could do what a few events in the PDGA National Tour do as they do not get cell coverage and are not live via Smashbox or whoever is doing the live feed. This way we could have tournaments in places like Highbridge Hill on the Pro Course and the next most difficult for a cool change up course in the middle day of tournament in Wisconsin should the course(s) survive or be back again at Minnesota Majetsic as a Disc Golf Pro Tour event.
Yes, Steve was committed to live. And from what we are currently hearing, we are set for next year live as well. But remember, not only does a DGPT event have to have live coverage, they have to be in a city where Pros want to go, an event that can raise thousands of dollars, and can provide enough facilities for people to stay at.

Highbridge is a great couple of courses, but they literally just got their feet under them this year, and it would probably be a few years before anyone is willing to put them on the national scene. Like all events, they need to prove they can provide all those things.
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  #170  
Old 09-03-2019, 09:50 PM
aredoubles aredoubles is offline
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The DGPT 2019 Championship has been moved to Charlotte NC
https://discgolf.ultiworld.com/2019/...ria-charlotte/

Sounds like Rainwater/Spring pushed for the change soon after assuming leadership. Seems like a popular move amongst the pros at least.
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