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  #11  
Old 05-22-2018, 09:53 AM
_MTL_ _MTL_ is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cheesethin View Post
So I think I'll stand by my earlier statement that foot faults should be treated separately from regulated area/route/position faults - both penalties should count.

It makes sense to me that regulated area/route/position faults are lumped in together as one 'class' of fault, and that you should only incur one penalty per throw for transgressing any of them. You make one 'error' by shanking your shot - you incur one penalty, even if you miss the mando AND go OB AND can't find you disc. It is still just as a result of one error - shanking your shot.

But a foot-fault/stance violation strikes me as a separate kind of thing. In the Wysocki incident, him stepping over the tee-pad front line didn't really play any significant part in the shot landing in the hazard. I'd say a player doing this has made two 'errors', one, not placing their feet correctly & two, throwing the shot poorly.

(A possible exception to this is slipping on the tee-pad/run-up. That could cause you to foot fault and misthrow.)
I get your argument, but the rules pretty clearly say this is wrong:

https://www.pdga.com/faq/rules/qa-ob...his-throw-went
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  #12  
Old 05-22-2018, 09:59 AM
cheesethin cheesethin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _MTL_ View Post
I get your argument, but the rules pretty clearly say this is wrong:

https://www.pdga.com/faq/rules/qa-ob...his-throw-went
Yes, I'm not arguing what the rule say. I'm offering up a possible rule change for discussion
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  #13  
Old 05-22-2018, 10:00 AM
Mocheez Mocheez is offline
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This exact situation was posed as a question in the certified rules official exam... it was the only question I got wrong.

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  #14  
Old 05-22-2018, 10:01 AM
cheesethin cheesethin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _MTL_ View Post
I get your argument, but the rules pretty clearly say this is wrong:
I'll argue the bit in bold though!
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  #15  
Old 05-22-2018, 05:11 PM
coopera coopera is offline
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So how *should* this have been played?

I would hazard to guess from my reading that Ricky should have incurred a one throw penalty for the foot fault, then played from the hazard with no penalty.

That doesn't seem right intuitively, but it's all I can come up with.

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  #16  
Old 05-22-2018, 06:51 PM
JC17393 JC17393 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coopera View Post
So how *should* this have been played?

I would hazard to guess from my reading that Ricky should have incurred a one throw penalty for the foot fault, then played from the hazard with no penalty.

That doesn't seem right intuitively, but it's all I can come up with.
That's correct. Per 801.02.H: "A throw or an action that is subject to penalty under more than one rule is played under the rule that results in the most penalty throws; or, among rules that call for an equal number of penalty throws, the rule that was first violated."

Since the foot fault came first sequentially, it is the penalty that is assigned. Though in this case, does it really matter which violation is "credited" for the penalty? The essence of the rule is that you don't get double penalized on the same throw. Sequencing of violations really only matters when the next lie is at stake. Like if a disc misses a mando and lands OB...which happened first determines where the player plays his next throw from...drop zone or re-tee for the mando, or last in-bounds (or drop zone or re-tee) for the OB.

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  #17  
Old 05-24-2018, 04:10 AM
JoakimBL JoakimBL is offline
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I'm positively surprised that the RC actually realized this potential problem with removing the rethrow from the stance violation. However it does seem like you are "getting away" free with your stance violation or OB/hazard throw. Maybe the reasoning is that since you landed OB/in a hazard, you clearly didn't get an advantage out of you foot fault, but that is also the reasoning most people use for not calling the foot fault in the first place, and really shouldn't bee a deciding factor for if a penalty is applied or not. Also, if you had to rethrow, you still might end up OB/in a hazard on your rethrow, and would deserve to get two penalties

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  #18  
Old 05-24-2018, 09:07 AM
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rhatton1 rhatton1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _MTL_ View Post
Also in the article:

“I never witnessed it – I’ve gotta pay attention more,” (Anthon) admitted.

You just admitted to a courtesy violation.
On this point could we start calling everyone that turns their backs on the person putting, (Philo was doing it throughout this video) another one of my many pet peeves and unless they have a big screen/eyes in the back of their heads a clear courtesy violation. WATCH MY PUTT!!!!

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  #19  
Old 05-24-2018, 09:27 AM
robdeforge robdeforge is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoakimBL View Post
I'm positively surprised that the RC actually realized this potential problem with removing the rethrow from the stance violation. However it does seem like you are "getting away" free with your stance violation or OB/hazard throw. Maybe the reasoning is that since you landed OB/in a hazard, you clearly didn't get an advantage out of you foot fault, but that is also the reasoning most people use for not calling the foot fault in the first place, and really shouldn't bee a deciding factor for if a penalty is applied or not. Also, if you had to rethrow, you still might end up OB/in a hazard on your rethrow, and would deserve to get two penalties
you're only "getting away" with one if you specifically plan to do one or the other ahead of time. as in, you say to yourself "i know i'm going to throw into the hazard, so i might as well foot fault too". and if you did it so obviously that your cardmates knew you foot faulted on purpose you're opening yourself up to disqualification.

the thing is, this isn't some newfangled complicated rule thing. it's been a thing ever since i started paying attention to rules in disc golf (2013). here's a Q&A from that rulebook:
QA 33: Penalty Rule Priorities
Q: Is there a priority order for which penalty rule should be applied if more than one applies?
A: Yes. The violation with the most severe penalty is applied. Ties are broken by what happened first. A single throw cannot be penalized for more than one violation.
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  #20  
Old 05-24-2018, 10:29 AM
Steve West Steve West is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rhatton1 View Post
On this point could we start calling everyone that turns their backs on the person putting, ...
We just need to call one top pro on it in one video.
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