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Old 06-11-2012, 09:58 AM
slowRoll slowRoll is offline
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Default Valkyrie vs. Beast vs. Archon

The flight stats on these all look the same and I'm wondering if I should try the Archon or Beast since I've grown to love the Valkyrie these past 3 years.

Name: Speed, Glide, HSS, LSS
Valkyrie 9, 4, -2, 2
Beast 10, 5, -2, 2
Archon 11, 5, -2, 2

Have any of you spent much time with all 3 of these to see if there are any major differences between them? When would you use one over the others, and why?

Thanks.
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Old 06-11-2012, 10:19 AM
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jasonc jasonc is offline
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I currently have 3 valks (newer champ glo, beat star and a mildly seasoned dx) in the bag.

From my POV, the archon is noticeably more overstable when compared to the valkyrie. The archon's rim is wider as well.

I took the archon out of the bag for now. I like it, but it does not fit into my current discin' down adventure road map. My only drivers in the bag right now are the SL/Pro Starfires and Valkyries.

It's been a loooooong time since I threw a beast. Sorry, can't help you out on that part.
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Old 06-11-2012, 10:24 AM
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gstenger gstenger is offline
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I haven't thrown the Archon, but I have both the Valkyrie and the Beast. My experience is that both the Valk and the Beast are good for hyzer flipping, but the Beast will more predictably return to the left (thrown RHBH). Once the Valk gets going to the right, it's not coming back whereas the Beast may still come back. I love the Beast for big anyhyzer shots or tunnel shots in the woods. I'm more afraid the Valk will turn and burn when thrown the same way.

For what it's worth, I have Star Beast and a Champion Valkyrie.

-Greg
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Old 06-11-2012, 10:45 AM
slowRoll slowRoll is offline
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I'm at work today, so these thoughts have to be quick. My first disc was a DX Beast but I had no idea what I was doing at that time. The rim width may be a real issue for me. I usually struggle with wide rim drivers overall and get more distance out of my Surge and Valkyrie than I do out of a Nuke or Boss. I own a Pro Beast and a first run Star Archon, but have never spent much time with them to see if they might be better than something I'm already using. Thanks again for the knowledge.
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Old 06-11-2012, 11:01 AM
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jasonc jasonc is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slowRoll View Post
The rim width may be a real issue for me. I usually struggle with wide rim drivers overall and get more distance out of my Surge and Valkyrie than I do out of a Nuke or Boss.
If the rim width is an issue, I would keep the archon in storage for now. I have the same issue, which is why I have been focusing on the valks, starfires and SL's lately.

According to the "experts"......these discs should fly 400'+ when thrown properly. I am finally getting to the point where I can throw these consistently in the 300'--320' range. While I have plenty of room for improvement, I feel that I am on the right path improving my distance lines with these discs.

Now if I only had the time for 3+ hours per day of field work.
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Old 06-11-2012, 11:02 AM
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foo_g foo_g is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gstenger View Post
I haven't thrown the Archon, but I have both the Valkyrie and the Beast. My experience is that both the Valk and the Beast are good for hyzer flipping, but the Beast will more predictably return to the left (thrown RHBH). Once the Valk gets going to the right, it's not coming back whereas the Beast may still come back. I love the Beast for big anyhyzer shots or tunnel shots in the woods. I'm more afraid the Valk will turn and burn when thrown the same way.

For what it's worth, I have Star Beast and a Champion Valkyrie.

-Greg
Is the fade from the Beast due to the fact that it is a higher speed disc?
If it's thrown with more power, wouldn't it be more likely to continue to turn and hold the initial line?

I don't throw a Beast, but I do throw a Star Archon and a Champion Valkyrie quite a bit.
The biggest difference with mine is that the Valkyrie has a lot more dome and will ride and glide for a much longer distance when given some altitude.
For a low ceiling distance shot that I want to turn just a bit, the Archon is my disc, although lately it has been flipping on me and kicking hard to the left on impact if I get just a little too much anhyzer on my release..
It also wants to fade out at the very end for me if I don't turn it over.
Again, it may have to do with the fact that maybe I don't have the arm to really optimize the Archon.
The Valkyrie gives me a little more room for error in most situations, although the distance is a little less predictable with it.
For me, I would also throw a River (speed 7-8?) into this group.
I like it and the Valkyrie for big, high, long anhyzer shots due to the glide of each disc.
If there's a tailwind, I'll usually go with my Gold Line River because it just seems to ride it out forever.
The River also has a more predictable fade than my Valks, so it all just depends on the situation.
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Old 06-11-2012, 11:04 AM
JoshEpoo JoshEpoo is offline
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The Archon's rim (2.3cm) is actually 1mm wider than a Destroyer, so while it's rated a speed 11, it's considerably more difficult to throw well than a Valk.

If you're looking for a max D type tailwind/turnover/roller driver that's faster than your Valks, then your Pro Beast is certainly worth a shot. Great glide on those things. Since you've already got the Archon, you may as well try it, but I also recommend Pro Wraiths and X Nukes. The X Nuke is the farthest flying disc I've thrown for wide open distance situations, and Pro Wraiths have smaller rims and better grip than the Archon, while being comparable in distance and line shaping potential.
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Old 06-11-2012, 11:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slowRoll View Post

Name: Speed, Glide, HSS, LSS
Valkyrie 9, 4, -2, 2
Beast 10, 5, -2, 2
Archon 11, 5, -2, 2


Thanks.
To me, the "-2, 2" flight rating for innova is pretty useless and doesn't have much meaning... (groove, wahoo)
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Old 06-11-2012, 11:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoshEpoo View Post
The X Nuke is the farthest flying disc I've thrown for wide open distance situations, and Pro Wraiths have smaller rims and better grip than the Archon, while being comparable in distance and line shaping potential.
X Nukes being their basline plastic? I have a first run ESP Nuke that is almost useless to me. The rim is just too wide. I can't properly transfer the energy onto the disc like I can with a Valkyrie or a Surge. I mainly just want to see if anyone else loves the Valkyrie as much as me and stepped up in speed to one of these other options. Valks fly in the 320' -350' range for me but I primarily use them in tailwinds or on tighter wooded fairways for shaping lines.

Is there a good reason to step up to a faster disc or is the groups consensus that the Valk is good enough on its own and these other options are just overlap?
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Old 06-11-2012, 12:04 PM
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I think the valk is a good distance driver and can go really far if thrown correctly, probably farther than anything faster if your arm speed/form isn't that great.
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