#101  
Old 07-21-2019, 09:07 AM
SD86's Avatar
SD86 SD86 is offline
Snowflake
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Atlanta, GA
Courses Played: 8
Posts: 8,983
Niced 2,069 Times in 1,543 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jolt View Post
But if you compare Paul and Paiges 2019 UDisc stats for putting.

Paul have 83% C1x and 30% C2
Paige have 67% C1x and 21% C2

Thats not a huge difference . . and no offence to Paige but upper body strength is not the first thing that comes to mind.

Fairway Hits
Parked
Circle 1 in Regulation
Circle 2 in Regulation

Those stats stands out more in Pauls favor than the putting stats
Okay, that's Paige... now tell me about the rest of the FPO field.

Also, disc golf is not about brute strength, or Paige P, Will Shusterick, and Eagle McMahon would never be able to throw as far as they do.

Again, my point is relative to tee placement for FPO, and I was making the thesis that it doesn't matter where the tee boxes are when the FPO field can't putt as well as the MPO field.
Sponsored Links
Reply With Quote
  #102  
Old 07-21-2019, 09:12 AM
Jolt Jolt is offline
* Ace Member *
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Sweden
Posts: 2,073
Niced 1,169 Times in 684 Posts
Default

Quote:
Okay, that's Paige... now tell me about the rest of the FPO field.
No fun then . . . there is only a handfull of really good putters in the FPO field. . .in the MPO it΄s a must

But Cat is not missing all those really short ones of a lack of strength. . it΄s something else
Reply With Quote
  #103  
Old 07-21-2019, 09:17 AM
SD86's Avatar
SD86 SD86 is offline
Snowflake
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Atlanta, GA
Courses Played: 8
Posts: 8,983
Niced 2,069 Times in 1,543 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jolt View Post
No fun then . . . there is only a handfull of really good putters in the FPO field. . .in the MPO it΄s a must

But Cat is not missing all those really short ones of a lack of strength. . it΄s something else
Exactly my point on both counts.
Reply With Quote
  #104  
Old 07-21-2019, 09:23 AM
RistoS RistoS is offline
Eagle Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Finland
Years Playing: 7.1
Courses Played: 6
Throwing Style: RHBH
Posts: 538
Niced 117 Times in 61 Posts
Default

Was skimming through today's results, and my club mate Kristian Kuoksa shot a 56 (-8). He's 16 years old! Only 1034 rated, probably because of the cut field and pretty good scoring conditions.

Niced: (1)
Reply With Quote
  #105  
Old 07-21-2019, 09:26 AM
JC17393 JC17393 is offline
* Ace Member *
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Years Playing: 21.7
Courses Played: 150
Throwing Style: LHBH
Posts: 7,647
Niced 3,416 Times in 1,433 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SD86 View Post
Except that they're not missing due to lack of strength; their putts are not falling out of the air short of the basket (especially the short ones Cat has missed). They're just not throwing accurately, so sorry, and I'm not sure why...
The lack of strength can come in to play with accuracy because they have to put more effort into getting the disc there. If you've got more moving parts in order to generate pop/spin/etc, there's more that can go wrong. Even on the short putts, if you're making adjustments for distance changes as small as 5-10 feet (i.e. changing your approach on a 25 footer compared to a 15 footer), you can get yourself messed up pretty easily such that any putt is a tester.

Unlike on a tee shot or a full throw, it's much more difficult to use technique (especially repeatable technique) to generate distance and accuracy with a putt. Paige Pierce can throw a drive 400 feet despite her diminutive size primarily because she has near flawless technique. There's not a whole lot of technique that can compensate for inherent lack of strength in a putting motion.

I think with Cat in particular, she's always messing around with her putting style. Sometimes subtle adjustments, sometimes significant ones. I think the more you're doing that, the more often you're going to lose the feel, occasionally out of the blue. It's hard to be consistent when you're changing things so frequently.
Reply With Quote
  #106  
Old 07-21-2019, 10:36 AM
SD86's Avatar
SD86 SD86 is offline
Snowflake
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Atlanta, GA
Courses Played: 8
Posts: 8,983
Niced 2,069 Times in 1,543 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JC17393 View Post
The lack of strength can come in to play with accuracy because they have to put more effort into getting the disc there. If you've got more moving parts in order to generate pop/spin/etc, there's more that can go wrong. Even on the short putts, if you're making adjustments for distance changes as small as 5-10 feet (i.e. changing your approach on a 25 footer compared to a 15 footer), you can get yourself messed up pretty easily such that any putt is a tester.

Unlike on a tee shot or a full throw, it's much more difficult to use technique (especially repeatable technique) to generate distance and accuracy with a putt. Paige Pierce can throw a drive 400 feet despite her diminutive size primarily because she has near flawless technique. There's not a whole lot of technique that can compensate for inherent lack of strength in a putting motion.

I think with Cat in particular, she's always messing around with her putting style. Sometimes subtle adjustments, sometimes significant ones. I think the more you're doing that, the more often you're going to lose the feel, occasionally out of the blue. It's hard to be consistent when you're changing things so frequently.
First, about Catrina: sometimes she putts lights out, and then sometimes... IMHO she sometimes doesn't focus enough when she's going up for short putts. And worse, sometimes she seems to get into a mental 'fog' or 'zone' where she's not giving it 100%; she gets down mentally. Sometimes she gets it back, sometimes it stays with her for the remainder of the round. She's not the only one: Paige P was becoming known for missing putts at the end of early rounds that cost her strokes, and one time cost her an outright championship instead of a co-championship when the tournament was called early due to weather. Paige P seems to have corrected that, but Catrina still has spells when she gets down.

Second, I don't disagree with most of what you've said above, but once again I'm not talking about really long putts.

For example, I'm more than twice as old as most of the MPO field and so I have no expectation of throwing 700 ft. drives or even 400 ft. drives. I'm not going to throw as far as Paul McBeth or Paige Pierce, just like I can't hit a golf ball as far as Phil Mickelson or Annika Sorenstam.

But I watch FPO golf because their strategies on holes are more like what I'd expect to have during my own rounds, just as I watched LPGA golf and volunteered at LPGA tournaments to see the same. I can't drive as far as the LPGA players nor most DG FPO players, but the iron shots into the greens and the approaches to the basket are more similar to me than trying to emulate a Mickelson wedge shot or McBeth's use of the Zone. So I believe the FPO young ladies should be good enough to have good short games, even if they're not as physically strong as the men, and sometimes they do... just not here at the Euroopean Open, it would seem.

As a corollary to this, if an FPO player would hone her short game to dynamite status, she'd be winning all over the place. Valarie Jenkins Doss won four world titles because she could putt and approach incredibly well. When Paige P's putting is on, she's unstoppable. And part of that is to hone Course Management skills, like what Hannah Leatherman did to win the 2015 USWDGC with Paige P and Val Jenkins on the final card with her...
Reply With Quote
  #107  
Old 07-21-2019, 11:03 AM
Jolt Jolt is offline
* Ace Member *
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Sweden
Posts: 2,073
Niced 1,169 Times in 684 Posts
Default

I hope Paige stays and do commentary for the last round. . .will be interesting to hear her mental state when she throws seven attempts to hit the green on 16 . . .and destroyed her average Rating

odd fact. . only ONE FPO player played over her rating in R4

Niced: (1)
Reply With Quote
  #108  
Old 07-21-2019, 11:08 AM
RistoS RistoS is offline
Eagle Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Finland
Years Playing: 7.1
Courses Played: 6
Throwing Style: RHBH
Posts: 538
Niced 117 Times in 61 Posts
Default

Here's Jesse Nieminen's ace from today. Hole 14, 112 meters (367 ft). Pretty well filmed for being with a cell phone, too.



Last edited by RistoS; 07-21-2019 at 11:11 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #109  
Old 07-21-2019, 01:18 PM
Notorious's Avatar
Notorious Notorious is offline
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Years Playing: 14.3
Posts: 4
Niced 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

McBeth is clutch.
Reply With Quote
 

  #110  
Old 07-21-2019, 01:58 PM
sidewinder22's Avatar
sidewinder22 sidewinder22 is offline
* Ace Member *
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Creeping Creek DGC
Years Playing: 13.1
Courses Played: 219
Posts: 14,899
Niced 2,674 Times in 1,666 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SD86 View Post
Also, disc golf is not about brute strength, or Paige P, Will Shusterick, and Eagle McMahon would never be able to throw as far as they do.
PP is definitely very athletic and quick and explosive with the lower body. I'll bet she is a lot stronger/athletic than she appears and than most of her competitors pound for pound.

Will and Eagle and Lizotte have pure mechanical advantage and very underrated athletic talent/skill. When technique is equal, then the only way to compete with mechanical advantage is to be more athletic/stronger/quicker like McBeth and GG and Nikko.


Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
DGPT: 2019 San Francisco Open presented by AbsoluteXtracts 10-May to 12-May-2019 brutalbrutus Tournaments & Leagues 160 05-17-2019 02:19 PM
2017 European Open DiscFifty Tournaments & Leagues 207 07-31-2017 01:09 AM
European Open 2016 dashiellx Tournaments & Leagues 138 06-10-2016 05:17 PM
2015 European Open JMeresmaa Tournaments & Leagues 251 07-25-2015 12:08 AM
European open 2011 Smigles Tournaments & Leagues 37 07-24-2011 07:09 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:15 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.10
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.