#101  
Old 10-04-2020, 10:23 PM
curmudgeonDwindle curmudgeonDwindle is offline
Birdie Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: CLT
Years Playing: 41.3
Courses Played: 20
Throwing Style: LHBH
Posts: 406
Niced 245 Times in 142 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillFleming View Post
Since you made the comparison to ball golf.

Ball golf limits it to 14 clubs.
You can carry as many balls as you want (but by the rules they have to be the same).
So while each ball has to have the same flight, different clubs can be used for different distances/flights (example: you can have two different drivers...one with a 9 degree loft and one with a 12 degree loft). You can change your grip and change the flight of the ball (similar to changing the angle of your hand and putting the disc on hyzer or anhyzer).

So, in ball golf...with fourteen clubs, you can have way more different options.

In disc golf, one reason to carry multiple discs is in case one is lost (that's why ball golfers carry extra balls). Since ball golf is played on open fairways and disc golf isn't, you really need different discs for different throws - one disc might be good for forehands, but not thumbers.

I personally don't see a reason to limit discs. The player just needs to be quick making their disc selection.

Once we start limiting discs as a rule....what is the next rule? Starter packs only?
Disagree for 3 reasons.

1. Maintaining your quiver is to be considered a skill test.
2. Limiting options is also to be considered a skill test.
3. Selection of the proper quiver for a given event is also a skill test.

So by combining these three ideas, we have compounded the skill required (read: emphasized) for a successful meet without changing the basic nature of it.

Part of the reason for limiting clubs in Golf is that you can pick 'em, but you can't pick 'em all.
Sponsored Links

Niced: (1)

Last edited by curmudgeonDwindle; 10-04-2020 at 10:26 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #102  
Old 10-04-2020, 10:30 PM
curmudgeonDwindle curmudgeonDwindle is offline
Birdie Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: CLT
Years Playing: 41.3
Courses Played: 20
Throwing Style: LHBH
Posts: 406
Niced 245 Times in 142 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillFleming View Post
I won't quote rules, but it seems strange the person would get DQ'd for leaving early, I've been in a few sanctioned tournaments where the person left early (usually for an injury) and just got a DNF for the round. In a recent tournament, a player DNF'd the first round and then played the next one with no issue - they just had a high score for the first round.
I believe in Golf the reason for an early departure's DQ relates to 'not finishing the course correctly', which means one forfeits the right to 'try again'. Disc golf fears alienating players, so there's a stronger emphasis on participation and inclusion...
Reply With Quote
  #103  
Old 10-05-2020, 02:31 AM
ILUVSMGS18 ILUVSMGS18 is offline
Double Eagle Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Keeseville, NY
Years Playing: 7.5
Courses Played: 12
Posts: 1,943
Niced 574 Times in 399 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by curmudgeonDwindle View Post
Assuming this is for 'official tournament play'...

1. Ban jump-putting. Jump-putting demands that your card-mates enforce the rules.

2. Expand the smallest green to a 15 meter circle and allow 'course administrators' to create even larger greens of different shapes/configurations within a limit of a 25 meter circle.

3. Limit bag sizes either by number of discs or total weight of discs.

4. Reduce the maximum weight of 'legal' discs.

5. Ban caddies, either human or otherwise, except in the rare cases of disabled access - or if one man has a caddy, then every man must have a caddy.

6. All discs within 5' of the basket are considered 'gimmies' (+1 stroke & pick it up, move to the next hole). 'Circle Zero'

7. Ban all artificial 'aides' such as range finders, and the like.

I could go on but it's been a long day.
1. Fine with me. My normal putting stroke works well with slight modifications out to 80ish', longer if I'm really on.

2. Good idea, as long as courses are good about labeling the green on the tee, if nothing is labelled assume basic 15m green.

3 and 4. Good ideas on paper, never going to work in practice.

5. Some people just don't want a caddy, and that's fine. Others like a caddy and that's fine too. Trying to eliminate personal preferences is never a good idea in something that doesn't directly affect play.

6. Should be 2m, but otherwise I agree with you.

7. While I don't personally use one (I'm broke and would forget I had it), it would be nice to have for those tricky approaches and water carries, especially on courses where you may not be able to get in practice with that situation during you practice rounds. One thing I've learned is that unless I've personally verified the measurement of a hole, I don't believe it. I've got a good eye for distance, but not everyone does. This levels the playing field IMO, especially for second shots on longer holes.
Reply With Quote
  #104  
Old 10-05-2020, 08:18 AM
curmudgeonDwindle curmudgeonDwindle is offline
Birdie Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: CLT
Years Playing: 41.3
Courses Played: 20
Throwing Style: LHBH
Posts: 406
Niced 245 Times in 142 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ILUVSMGS18 View Post
1. Fine with me. My normal putting stroke works well with slight modifications out to 80ish', longer if I'm really on.

2. Good idea, as long as courses are good about labeling the green on the tee, if nothing is labelled assume basic 15m green.

3 and 4. Good ideas on paper, never going to work in practice.

Nothing said on this thread will be put into practice, certainly not in my lifetime. We are bull****ting-brainstorming.

5. Some people just don't want a caddy, and that's fine. Others like a caddy and that's fine too. Trying to eliminate personal preferences is never a good idea in something that doesn't directly affect play.

My rationale is that a player should rely more upon his own resources, especially regarding 'advice'. There are distinct advantages to having a caddy, more so if the caddy is reliable and experienced and unless everyone has that advantage it is an unfair one. Having a caddy most certainly directly affects play.

6. Should be 2m, but otherwise I agree with you.

Too far - you've not played in high wind situations enough. My distance is measured from the center of the pole (or central basket support - can't forget those hanging baskets...).

7. While I don't personally use one (I'm broke and would forget I had it), it would be nice to have for those tricky approaches and water carries, especially on courses where you may not be able to get in practice with that situation during you practice rounds. One thing I've learned is that unless I've personally verified the measurement of a hole, I don't believe it. I've got a good eye for distance, but not everyone does. This levels the playing field IMO, especially for second shots on longer holes.
see #5 - a player should rely on his own normal resources.

What's interesting to me is how 'personal' this thread gets...I guess we all tend to think about our own games first and foremost...

Last edited by curmudgeonDwindle; 10-05-2020 at 08:20 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #105  
Old 10-05-2020, 09:46 AM
biscoe biscoe is online now
* Ace Member *
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: spotsylvania, va
Years Playing: 25.5
Courses Played: 94
Posts: 7,197
Niced 2,986 Times in 1,174 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cgkdisc View Post
Score capping, initially at par+4. The rules have already assigned the worst score a player can get on a hole because being late on a hole or missing it is par+4. Why not just make par+4 the max score you can get on a hole? Speed up play and not be able to sandbag your rating. Ball golf has a max score allowed for handicap purposes at Net Double Bogey which is par+2+any handicap strokes you're allowed on that hole. They now allow the Maximum Score format as a legitimate alternate form of play but not yet used for elite level play.
Par is tightly codified in golf, not so much in dg. For rules based on par to increase beyond what we have now there would need to be strict adherence to some well defined definition of the term.
Reply With Quote
  #106  
Old 10-05-2020, 09:47 AM
davetherocketguy's Avatar
davetherocketguy davetherocketguy is offline
* Ace Member *
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Southwest Michigan
Years Playing: 16.3
Courses Played: 92
Throwing Style: RHBH
Posts: 3,221
Niced 2,583 Times in 1,036 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by curmudgeonDwindle View Post
Assuming this is for 'official tournament play'...

1. Ban jump-putting. Jump-putting demands that your card-mates enforce the rules.

2. Expand the smallest green to a 15 meter circle and allow 'course administrators' to create even larger greens of different shapes/configurations within a limit of a 25 meter circle.

3. Limit bag sizes either by number of discs or total weight of discs.

4. Reduce the maximum weight of 'legal' discs.

5. Ban caddies, either human or otherwise, except in the rare cases of disabled access - or if one man has a caddy, then every man must have a caddy.

6. All discs within 5' of the basket are considered 'gimmies' (+1 stroke & pick it up, move to the next hole). 'Circle Zero'

7. Ban all artificial 'aides' such as range finders, and the like.

I could go on but it's been a long day.
1. You'll have to define the difference between a putt and a throw. Good luck.

2. I don't understand the point of this one.

3. I don't think this will have any effect whatsoever. People like McBeth will still be throwing similarly rated rounds. Seems like a rule for the sake of having the rule.

4. Sooooo what do you do with the millions of discs already out in the wild? Grandfather them in? Disc manufacturers are going to love this one...

5. Don't really care either way on this one...

6. No. Just no. Either you hole out or you don't. This would change nothing and have no effect. Another rule for the sake of having the rule.

7. Don't really care about this one either. I could go either way.
Reply With Quote
  #107  
Old 10-05-2020, 09:49 AM
biscoe biscoe is online now
* Ace Member *
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: spotsylvania, va
Years Playing: 25.5
Courses Played: 94
Posts: 7,197
Niced 2,986 Times in 1,174 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by paulw View Post
If you miss your tee time (pick a time -- 3min?) you're dq'd.

Matches the DQ rule for leaving early unless this rule has been changed. The par +4 is dumb.

If not -- then make it par +4 if you leave early also. I realize late happens and leaving early happens . . .. but at least make it the same.

My usual rant -- I realize that I'm alone being bugged by this -- just saying.
Any missed hole should be the end of your event imo, as should an incorrect scorecard. Would require a seismic change in the culture of our game however.
Reply With Quote
  #108  
Old 10-05-2020, 09:51 AM
biscoe biscoe is online now
* Ace Member *
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: spotsylvania, va
Years Playing: 25.5
Courses Played: 94
Posts: 7,197
Niced 2,986 Times in 1,174 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by krupicka View Post
Selecting the right disc is a skill.
as is judging distance
Reply With Quote
  #109  
Old 10-05-2020, 11:13 AM
Steve West Steve West is offline
Par Delusionary
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Years Playing: 46.5
Courses Played: 431
Posts: 5,495
Niced 2,296 Times in 1,094 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by biscoe View Post
Par is tightly codified in golf, not so much in dg. For rules based on par to increase beyond what we have now there would need to be strict adherence to some well defined definition of the term.
If we were talking about something like Stableford scoring, you'd have a point.

For any current or potential "par plus 4" rules, it's close enough already. The plus 4 gives a lot of room for slop. Almost all holes have a par within one parlecule of any standard we could come up with. And, 99% of those pars that would depart from the standard are higher than they should be.

So, yes, a minority of the time a player would get a score more like par plus 5. That's OK because the alternative was DQ, so they can't complain.

Very rarely a player would get something that feels like par plus 3. But, that's still enough to significantly punish a competitive player.
Reply With Quote
 

  #110  
Old 10-05-2020, 12:23 PM
curmudgeonDwindle curmudgeonDwindle is offline
Birdie Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: CLT
Years Playing: 41.3
Courses Played: 20
Throwing Style: LHBH
Posts: 406
Niced 245 Times in 142 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by davetherocketguy View Post
1. You'll have to define the difference between a putt and a throw. Good luck.

the difference between a 'putt' and a 'throw' is already defined - a shot a specific distance from the target (basket). currently, a putt is any shot 10 meters or less from the target. any putt's delivery has specific restrictions. my issue with jump-putts is that the thrower himself cannot rightly determine whether or not the shot was correctly delivered. this forces his card-mates to 'decide for him'. this is an obvious 'gamesmanship' hole in the current rules.

2. I don't understand the point of this one.

expanding the size of greens, and thus permissible delivery methods, and also allowing 'course administrators' more creative leeway. maybe a way to increase the putting game's complexity, interest and thus gaming satisfaction. were I mr. west, i might say something like, 'we might try this. it could increase scoring separation.' were i mr. kennedy, i might say something like, 'we might try this. it might help older courses regain some legitimacy at a small cost.'

3. I don't think this will have any effect whatsoever. People like McBeth will still be throwing similarly rated rounds. Seems like a rule for the sake of having the rule.

maybe not, but check out other entries in the thread for more arguments for/against. we are speaking of all the competitive fields in 'official tournaments'...not merely our heroes...as well as decision making before and during the rounds...


4. Sooooo what do you do with the millions of discs already out in the wild? Grandfather them in? Disc manufacturers are going to love this one...

overweight discs are disallowed for competitive play. period. you are correct, one of the issues with changes like this one is the leverage disc manufacturers have in the sport overall, not to mention people's general resistance to change - good, bad or somewhere in between. in the short term, i would think disc manufacturers might love it because of the potential profit, however this may be countered by the 'alienation' factor resulting from such a decision. in the long term, people would just adjust. newer players would express surprise at earlier generations' liberality.

5. Don't really care either way on this one...

6. No. Just no. Either you hole out or you don't. This would change nothing and have no effect. Another rule for the sake of having the rule.

A valid point of contention, but all putts within arm length, assuming 'circle zero' is measured from the basket's support are already merely a formality. This would help speed play in a minor way; slow play is a common complaint in 'official tournaments' Lord knows i've done my share of grousing about it...i've played both roles actually...

7. Don't really care about this one either. I could go either way.
Take note: this thread isn't to be taken too seriously, or better, i take it as an opportunity to brainstorm/b*llsh*t about this topic...these ideas are predicated on the general premise that more skill should be required in disc golf, certainly for professionals and that a player, certainly a professional, should depend more upon his own resources/skills.

Niced: (1)
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Aren't Rules scenerios fun, here's another and I'll add a poll prerube Rules Questions & Discussion 60 03-31-2011 08:33 AM
When to add a course peabody Course Development 5 08-09-2010 11:06 AM
To Add or Not To Add (to course directory)? volklgirl Disc Golf Courses 35 06-04-2009 10:53 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:17 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.10
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.