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View Poll Results: Which do you prefer?
Raised baskets and artificial OB/ropes 17 17.71%
Standard height and natural rough 79 82.29%
Voters: 96. You may not vote on this poll

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  #61  
Old 09-21-2020, 08:51 PM
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How does he keep track of all these alt accounts?
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  #62  
Old 09-21-2020, 08:55 PM
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Originally Posted by oldmandiscer View Post
Can you not see the poll?
Yeah I guess I ignored that. Why didn't you mention the poll the first time I asked?
  #63  
Old 09-21-2020, 09:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Cgkdisc View Post
This old school attitude is squeezing the fun and creativity out of the sport. Fun and creativity have been key reasons why DG has been squeezing away at ball golf's stiff, slow and expensive structure and experience with our massive disc variety, vast array of course lengths, baskets and terrain, private owners cooking up new design elements, plus all weather play. Golf should be about demonstrating skill negotiating these elements, not just primarily power and distance. Both games continue to lose the value of skill, with power and conformity continuing to ramp up in both sports. How much do you think Bryson Dechambeau's literally crushing win will impact ball golf's future direction?

You want to keep players playing and spectators entertained? You need to provide variety of visual elements, technical elements, faster play on shorter courses and tighter not wider scoring spreads to create drama and playoffs. Perhaps only the basket tray should be the same size and level but get creative with the deflection assemblies (including none at all), so every target presents a slightly different challenge. Make the pros and daily players have to learn the best ways to hole out on different configurations. That's true skill not the watered down test of skill based on how far you throw accurately or how straight you can fire putts directly at the basket (takes power also.)

It's not faster action team sports that are the threat to slow paced outdoor sports. It's e-sports that are engaging the next generations from going outside to play sports that could embrace but are not yet embracing the rich variety of risk/reward gaming elements available in e-sports games. Inventing new "gimmicks" borrowing from e-sports elements has untapped potential to take our game into the future to engage players and spectators, not simply longer, more expensive and likely lower traffic courses.
Personally I think that raised baskets, triple mandos and such are more unprofessional looking. Artificial OB isn't equitable to a stroke penalty either when it's everywhere or the basket itself is next to it. If you are an inch either way of this line all of a sudden you are docked a shot. It brings in more luck into the scoring. When it's excessive excessive amounts of luck come into play.

Same with raised baskets in that the baskets are not designed to be hit from below so if the basket is 10 feet high, spit outs are more likely to happen. Again, more luck into the game. Not skill IMO. I think neither adds to the best player winning. Shouldn't we be finding out who played the course the best, not who got the luckiest who also played well?

I do appreciate your imagination into changing the basket. But I am with ballgolfconvert that 18 identical same height baskets are the most professional looking playing targets.
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Old 09-21-2020, 09:08 PM
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Yeah I guess I ignored that. Why didn't you mention the poll the first time I asked?
I thought you were screwing with me.
  #65  
Old 09-21-2020, 09:08 PM
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The answer is more complex than the question.

I don't mind the DGPT implementing raised baskets to create additional separation among the top pros in the world. I don't like amateur course designers trying to elevate baskets for everyday play. Personally, I like baskets on a hill with some added risk/reward more than a basket at the top of a tall pole or in a tree stump.

I don't mind artificial OB ropes on temp courses or a specific hole - like the bridge hole at ledgestone, but I think Winthrop takes it too far... I prefer to play in natural settings, but not every plot of land allocated to disc golf is naturally ideal.

So, I like tasteful designs that are both fun and challenging. But, not so much in favor of gimmicks...

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  #66  
Old 09-21-2020, 09:10 PM
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Maybe I mis-saw things, but it seemed like the slightly lower basket on 8 at Maple Hill was no longer this year. Maybe it was the case last year as well. I kind of always liked how it was slightly but noticeably on the short side. Prob counterproductive for creating water risk for players putting back at the basket.
  #67  
Old 09-21-2020, 09:12 PM
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Also, why not floating baskets, where a 20ft circle around the basket is all water? Make the putt, or card +1 and another for the tap-in. Plus, you lose your putter. (Would have to amend rules to grant automatic tap-in following missed putt).
  #68  
Old 09-21-2020, 09:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldmandiscer View Post
Personally I think that raised baskets, triple mandos and such are more unprofessional looking. Artificial OB isn't equitable to a stroke penalty either when it's everywhere or the basket itself is next to it. If you are an inch either way of this line all of a sudden you are docked a shot. It brings in more luck into the scoring. When it's excessive excessive amounts of luck come into play.

Same with raised baskets in that the baskets are not designed to be hit from below so if the basket is 10 feet high, spit outs are more likely to happen. Again, more luck into the game. Not skill IMO. I think neither adds to the best player winning. Shouldn't we be finding out who played the course the best, not who got the luckiest who also played well?

I do appreciate your imagination into changing the basket. But I am with ballgolfconvert that 18 identical same height baskets are the most professional looking playing targets.
Sorry, but old school thinking. Boring, not attracting enough non-playing nor playing viewers. The same old school thinking might have killed snowboarding, but viewers embraced the edgy, creative aspects and the sport now rivals or exceeds skiing in the younger crowd where it matters over the long haul. "Professional" is embracing the exciting aspects of your activity in the course design, rules, equipment and apparel, not trying to shoehorn aspects into old school sports that WERE successful in their era, not necessarily today.

  #69  
Old 09-21-2020, 09:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldmandiscer View Post

Same with raised baskets in that the baskets are not designed to be hit from below so if the basket is 10 feet high, spit outs are more likely to happen. Again, more luck into the game. Not skill IMO. I think neither adds to the best player winning. Shouldn't we be finding out who played the course the best, not who got the luckiest who also played well?
Bad players don't beat good players on these courses. The more-skilled players still outshoot the less-skilled ones. They're still a test of skill, whether aesthetically pleasing or not.

 

  #70  
Old 09-21-2020, 09:44 PM
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Originally Posted by oldmandiscer View Post
I would think most would agree that painted lines, ropes and stakes with land marked "OB" is considered artificial. I can see no pond is there. But since a magic line is there I suppose I am suppose to imagine it?

So yes something the designer put in to make the course scores higher. Property line is OK, that is understandable. But even then maybe it shouldn't be next to a "fair"way.

I would say most artificial OB is just adding strokes to add strokes. It's never making a hole play better from my experience. You can actually scramble from woods. Every wooded area doesn't need to be marked OB.

To sum it up, the course or certain holes at some point were considered too easy, so now to make scores higher imaginary lines on the ground are created.
Not necessarily.

The value of OB -- found or constructed -- is that it dictates not just how the disc flies through the air, but where it may land. Strategically, I see no difference in a hole with pre-existing features as OB (creeks, sidewalks, etc.), and a hole with rope in exactly the same pattern. Aesthetically, yes, but not strategically.

I routinely play courses where pre-existing features are OB, as well as courses that added OB in places that would otherwise be boring, but now demand control of the shot. They weren't retrofitted to raise scores; they were that way from the start.

I do agree that OB on wooded courses can be overdone, as it takes away the "great save" shot out of the rough.

But after that, we'll have to agree to disagree, as to our tastes. My favorite course has OB from ponds, creeks, roads, a deep hole, and a line of flags. Yet, it seems to be quite popular with a wide range of players.

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