#61  
Old 08-27-2020, 12:54 AM
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dreadlock86 dreadlock86 is offline
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Originally Posted by RoDeO View Post
using more understable discs for an arm is not the correct way to play and learn the game.
this is nonsense. it's made-up bull$hit. you sound ridiculous.


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Originally Posted by RoDeO View Post
On a hole last night I threw a stable distance driver on a short hole because I wanted a predictable outcome. I could of used my midrange or a slower fairway driver but I chose the faster more stable driver because it's easier to control the exit speed than it is both the exit speed and the angle.
or, said another way, your higher speed stable disc masks minor flaws in form that give you more consistent results. that's fine for you but stop pretending that you're doing it right and others are doing it wrong.
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  #62  
Old 08-27-2020, 01:58 AM
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sidewinder22 sidewinder22 is offline
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Originally Posted by RoDeO View Post
I'm not saying unstable discs don't have their place. I'm saying that in general, more times than not, a stable disc is going to be used for the shot by the pro. Even with shot shaping, a pro is going to use the disc that will give them the best possible stability for the shot. That could be an understable disc but it will be right at that minimal point of understability that gives them the amount of stability that they still desire.

The starter pack challenge by the pros is the perfect example of showing why using more understable discs for an arm is not the correct way to play and learn the game. Yeah, they can throw an understable disc a very long ways, sometimes. What they can't do with any consistency is controlling where that understable disc is going to end up. Their release angle and velocity has such a narrow window that it's just too hard to be consistant. The ones that do the best are those whose starter packs include a driver with either a more stable driver or higher speed driver.

On a hole last night I threw a stable distance driver on a short hole because I wanted a predictable outcome. I could of used my midrange or a slower fairway driver but I chose the faster more stable driver because it's easier to control the exit speed than it is both the exit speed and the angle.
What you are referring to is known as "speed stability", not the disc's inherent stability. When you only throw 50mph you aren't getting a high speed disc up to it's rated speed say 60mph to fly as it was intended and will behave overstable and yeah it will do a consistent hyzer stall, but that doesn't necessarily make it more accurate disc, and has its downsides like bigger skips and harder to range distance.

Most pros will club down, rather than club up on shorter holes unless there is low ceiling or trying to go around obstacles. They would rather swing full clubs than slowing the swing down. Slower discs stay straighter while faster discs bob and weave more, so you can play one angle instead of two.
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Old 08-27-2020, 07:50 AM
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azplaya25 azplaya25 is offline
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Originally Posted by RoDeO View Post
I'm not saying unstable discs don't have their place. I'm saying that in general, more times than not, a stable disc is going to be used for the shot by the pro. Even with shot shaping, a pro is going to use the disc that will give them the best possible stability for the shot. That could be an understable disc but it will be right at that minimal point of understability that gives them the amount of stability that they still desire.

The starter pack challenge by the pros is the perfect example of showing why using more understable discs for an arm is not the correct way to play and learn the game. Yeah, they can throw an understable disc a very long ways, sometimes. What they can't do with any consistency is controlling where that understable disc is going to end up. Their release angle and velocity has such a narrow window that it's just too hard to be consistant. The ones that do the best are those whose starter packs include a driver with either a more stable driver or higher speed driver.

On a hole last night I threw a stable distance driver on a short hole because I wanted a predictable outcome. I could of used my midrange or a slower fairway driver but I chose the faster more stable driver because it's easier to control the exit speed than it is both the exit speed and the angle.

I discovered disc golf in 2009 and played off and on for 10 years. My go to driver was a champion XCaliber. I’d flick it and throw it backhand, learned to play the massive skip, and did ok with it. There is a ceiling to this style of play, and I hit that ceiling and decided I wanted to get better. After 10 years of throwing a fast, stable driver for every shot, my form was so jacked and it’s taken months to try to get a smooth, consistent swing. I’m now to the point where I throw a dx aviar way further than that champion XCal, with far more control and accuracy. It seems you are pretty set on this fast, stable driver concept, as I was, but I promise you that disc golf is far more rewarding when you learn to throw putters and mids and truly shape lines.


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Old 08-27-2020, 10:04 AM
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Originally Posted by RoDeO View Post
I'm not saying unstable discs don't have their place. I'm saying that in general, more times than not, a stable disc is going to be used for the shot by the pro.

...

On a hole last night I threw a stable distance driver on a short hole because I wanted a predictable outcome. I could of used my midrange or a slower fairway driver but I chose the faster more stable driver because it's easier to control the exit speed than it is both the exit speed and the angle.



Quote:
Originally Posted by dreadlock86 View Post
this is nonsense. it's made-up bull$hit. you sound ridiculous.


or, said another way, your higher speed stable disc masks minor flaws in form that give you more consistent results. that's fine for you but stop pretending that you're doing it right and others are doing it wrong.

You chose a faster and more stable driver because you don't have the skills to get a predictable result with a slower or less stable disc.



You have less than one year playing. You seem to grab ONE concept at a time and forget there are a lot of moving parts. You make broad generalizations as if they are single and solitary truths. In a vacuum, there is some truth, but disc golf is played in a dynamic environment with many factors to consider beyond the stability of plastic.


Top Pros DO throw understable plastic on a regular basis, including the top men with top arm speed. Garrett Gurthie is one of the farthest throwers in the game. The Sonic is one of his signature discs. I dare you to tell me THAT disc is stable! And you know what, Garrett can throw that disc with a flippy flight path, a stable flight path or even an overstable flight. This is all done with one very understable disc. How is this possible? Because Garrett has angle control at release. Garrett can also control the landing angle of the disc. Simon Lizotte always bags FD's, including a DX FD that is super flippy. (watch Simon Lizzotte in the bag 2020). World Champion Gregg Barsby has a signature Roadrunner, go look up those flight numbers. And Mr. Barry Schultz, 2 time World Champion has had the Champion Leopard as his signature disc since 2003. And while the models Paul McBeth uses might be stable according to the numbers on the label, I assure you he has discs that are now much less stable than advertised.


You are in danger of moving into Casey territory by giving advice to the world that is based on some strange reality trapped between your ears.


I bet you a dollar that you are using fast stable discs to mask poor form. When are you going to post a video of your amazing disc golf form and take my money? Be sure to throw heavy discs and super light flippy discs to show us your full range of skills off the tee.

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  #65  
Old 08-27-2020, 12:40 PM
RoDeO RoDeO is offline
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Originally Posted by azplaya25 View Post
I discovered disc golf in 2009 and played off and on for 10 years. My go to driver was a champion XCaliber. I’d flick it and throw it backhand, learned to play the massive skip, and did ok with it. There is a ceiling to this style of play, and I hit that ceiling and decided I wanted to get better. After 10 years of throwing a fast, stable driver for every shot, my form was so jacked and it’s taken months to try to get a smooth, consistent swing. I’m now to the point where I throw a dx aviar way further than that champion XCal, with far more control and accuracy. It seems you are pretty set on this fast, stable driver concept, as I was, but I promise you that disc golf is far more rewarding when you learn to throw putters and mids and truly shape lines.


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I think it's all in perspective. You learn as you grow. Who's to say that you throwing stable discs is what truly helped you to have the correct form and consistancy?
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  #66  
Old 08-27-2020, 01:11 PM
scooby snack scooby snack is offline
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I bet you a dollar that you are using fast stable discs to mask poor form. When are you going to post a video of your amazing disc golf form and take my money?.
Do they make cameras with enough zoom to capture 180 foot throws? Otherwise we may not be seeing video of this guys “solid” form.
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  #67  
Old 08-27-2020, 01:21 PM
RoDeO RoDeO is offline
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Some people aren't happy unless they can find the flaws in others. Somehow it makes them feel superior.
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  #68  
Old 08-27-2020, 01:26 PM
scooby snack scooby snack is offline
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Some people aren't happy unless they can find the flaws in others. Somehow it makes them feel superior.
On the contrary. You sir are making an excellent argument for speed 20 discs and I for one salute you!
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  #69  
Old 08-27-2020, 01:34 PM
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aphilso1 aphilso1 is offline
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I think it's all in perspective. You learn as you grow. Who's to say that you throwing stable discs is what truly helped you to have the correct form and consistancy?
Fast, overstable discs help you learn to throw nose down. That is like 99% grip pressure and thumb placement, and takes about 5 throws in a field to figure out once you have some basic mechanics down.

In contrast, slow, understable discs help you learn to throw without OAT. That is a relatively difficult lesson, as there are countless things your body can do in a throw that will impart unwanted rotational force. You can absolutely have a great time on a course while still throwing with OAT, and can even find discs to help mask it (especially if you play a lot of wide open courses). But if you want to push through from "I'm fairly competent at this sport and having a lot of fun" to "I can compete and even win at the tournament level" then you're going to have to learn to throw without OAT. That means figuring out slow/US discs. I truly don't care what stage you aspire to. You do you.
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  #70  
Old 08-27-2020, 01:52 PM
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azplaya25 azplaya25 is offline
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Fast, overstable discs help you learn to throw nose down. That is like 99% grip pressure and thumb placement, and takes about 5 throws in a field to figure out once you have some basic mechanics down.

In contrast, slow, understable discs help you learn to throw without OAT. That is a relatively difficult lesson, as there are countless things your body can do in a throw that will impart unwanted rotational force. You can absolutely have a great time on a course while still throwing with OAT, and can even find discs to help mask it (especially if you play a lot of wide open courses). But if you want to push through from "I'm fairly competent at this sport and having a lot of fun" to "I can compete and even win at the tournament level" then you're going to have to learn to throw without OAT. That means figuring out slow/US discs. I truly don't care what stage you aspire to. You do you.

Well said...I learned to play disc golf in West Texas. I could easily weave my fast overstable driver around the 2 trees on the whole course and have a good time. Then I moved to Austin and discovered the 200 foot straight hallways I needed to throw down and realized my game needed to change.

So I’m curious for the OP - what do you do when you have a dead straight, 200 foot shot you have to throw?


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