Movement in top 10

[elmexdela]

Originally Posted by armiller

Yeah, to each his or her own. I think the issue with this one wasn't so much the review as the fact that a 4.5 review can bump Lakeside down two spots. It's way crowded at the top.

I still feel Jarva doesn't deserve the top spot. Dear TimG, maybe we could make 25 the new minimum number of reviews to make the top 10?

there is a certain amount that still upsets me that outside of the us courses are allowed in top 10 when far majority of us (dgcr) baggers havent been there

i recognized 1-2 names total of the 134 that have played it

i know i understand it applies to the whole world and that perspective and so on

i just dont agree with it

it seems irrelevant

[armiller]

Originally Posted by elmexdela

there is a certain amount that still upsets me that outside of the us courses are allowed in top 10 when far majority of us (dgcr) baggers havent been there

i recognized 1-2 names total of the 134 that have played it

i know i understand it applies to the whole world and that perspective and so on

i just dont agree with it

it seems irrelevant

I haven't gone to look back in the thread for when it was relevant, but my problem has to do with the flurry of drive-by reviews that catapulted Jarva into the top 10 a couple years ago, clearly trying to draw attention in its battle against extinction.

mrclc is a TR, but the other 9 reviews on the front page are all 5.0 and have a total of 9 reviews for those 9 users. To be honest, I'd love to believe that the best course in the world is in Europe or that there are courses better than HB, HH, RR, Selah, Moraine, Deer Lakes across the Atlantic. But color me skeptical.

[sidewinder22]

Originally Posted by armiller

I'd love to believe that the best course in the world is in Europe or that there are courses better than HB, HH, RR, Selah, Moraine, Deer Lakes across the Atlantic. But color me skeptical.

I think there's some relatively unknown courses in Finland that would rival those courses. This is based purely on pics and video.

[Cgkdisc]

I'm hoping the reinvigoration at Highbridge will bring one, three or even five courses back into the top 20 in the next few years. Still much fine-tuning work ahead along with improved infrastructure. But Mountain Man and crew have gotten most of the playability and baskets back this year. More course rerouting, many tee pads and better signage in the works next year.

[dreadlock86]

Originally Posted by armiller

I haven't gone to look back in the thread for when it was relevant, but my problem has to do with the flurry of drive-by reviews that catapulted Jarva into the top 10 a couple years ago, clearly trying to draw attention in its battle against extinction.

mrclc is a TR, but the other 9 reviews on the front page are all 5.0 and have a total of 9 reviews for those 9 users. To be honest, I'd love to believe that the best course in the world is in Europe or that there are courses better than HB, HH, RR, Selah, Moraine, Deer Lakes across the Atlantic. But color me skeptical.

we don't have to wonder. there are multiple tourney vids of Jarva that attest to it being at least worthy of the conversation. and as SW22 said, i'm sure there are plenty of unknown courses across Scandinavia that rival our top 20.

personally, i can imagine it being a European BRP. i haven't played BRP but from video coverage i think i agree with it's detractors (as in, great course but not a top 10, too much filler).


i don't really care about the drive-by reviews. like always, time and more reviews will correct the numbers, assuming the course survives. and for me, the course's future is a far more worthy topic of conversation than whether it belongs in the top 10 or the #1 spot. when that flurry of reviews came, i appreciated that they brought attention to the course and ammo for its defenders. i still think it's a good thing. if wrongly being in the #1 spot saves the course from extinction, that's a worthy trade.




so... what's the status of the course??

[dreadlock86]

Originally Posted by ejvogie

In my opinion, only one of those cons (standing water) is legitimate. YMMV

it is a lengthy course. not as tough a walk as creekside but he basically used the same review for both courses.

side note, one doesn't have to love Selah. maybe it's not your style course. but i do think it's funny when you can tell that certain reviewers didn't want to spend the money for a cart and then they clearly didn't enjoy their time walking both courses in one day, trying to minimize costs.

Originally Posted by armiller

Yeah, to each his or her own. I think the issue with this one wasn't so much the review as the fact that a 4.5 review can bump Lakeside down two spots. It's way crowded at the top.

for sure. it's crazy that a 4.5 review praising the course can end up making people mad at you for bringing down their personal fav. and crazier still that an arbitrary list on the internet provokes such reactions.

[wolfhaley]

I couldn't find anything about a change of plans for Jarva closing. I'd assume that it still is. Everything I could find was 6 months old or more.

[armiller]

Originally Posted by sidewinder22

I think there's some relatively unknown courses in Finland that would rival those courses. This is based purely on pics and video.

Originally Posted by dreadlock86

we don't have to wonder. there are multiple tourney vids of Jarva that attest to it being at least worthy of the conversation. and as SW22 said, i'm sure there are plenty of unknown courses across Scandinavia that rival our top 20.

personally, i can imagine it being a European BRP. i haven't played BRP but from video coverage i think i agree with it's detractors (as in, great course but not a top 10, too much filler).

i don't really care about the drive-by reviews. like always, time and more reviews will correct the numbers, assuming the course survives. and for me, the course's future is a far more worthy topic of conversation than whether it belongs in the top 10 or the #1 spot. when that flurry of reviews came, i appreciated that they brought attention to the course and ammo for its defenders. i still think it's a good thing. if wrongly being in the #1 spot saves the course from extinction, that's a worthy trade.

I agree with basically all of this from dreadlock and SW22. But it's impossible to miss the rating inflation that happened from 25 May to 13 June in 2018. There were thirteen 5 disc reviews written in that period, with each of those thirteen reviewers having written exactly one DGCR review for one DGCR course: Jarva. Eleven of those reviews were between 5/25 and 5/28. And those 13 reviews make up well over half of Jarva's 23 reviews. The cynic in me doubts that these 13 people were all unique reviewers, but I prefer to think that it's just some of Finland's dedicated disc golf community that finally had a good reason to contribute to DGCR in an effort to help out their favorite course. (Incidentally, it also makes me curious what happened in mid to late May 2018 that brought all this about.) Fortunately, some of those reviews do have useful information, even though they are not as detailed as we generally like to see for a helpful 5-disc review.

Another factor, of course, is that Jarva is a "Seasonal" course. That's obviously different than "Temporary" such as Winthrop Gold, but Jarva is certainly the only Seasonal course in the top 10. My impression was that it was always in its best shape for the glorious tournaments we've seen on SpinTV, but that it missed many of those holes for the rest of the year, also being completely closed for other parts (maybe just winter? which would be understandable in Finland).

As far as quality courses overseas, I think this does highlight the fact that DGCR remains predominantly a resource on courses in the USA. There's simply not the user base overseas to keep courses and reviews updated. We all know there are large numbers of courses and disc golfers in Finland, for example, but only a small percentage of the disc golfers are on DGCR, with still fewer contributing to the courses and/or reviews. Someone mentioned previously that maybe DGCR's top 10 should only include courses in the USA, and I think it's fair to say that Jarva is the first course to really raise that question.

[thrembo]

I think it might be time for some new lists. Top 10 USA courses and top 10 world courses (probably excluding USA courses).

[ru4por]

This is a fun discussion. But, does anyone really care about these rankings? Maybe a lot of folks do? I don't really know.