#31  
Old 08-08-2017, 12:15 PM
JC17393 JC17393 is offline
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Originally Posted by Major Tomahawk View Post
When I first turned the show on, Barry threw out of bounds. He didn't follow the rules as he picked up his disc and then proceeded to mark his lie. That's a warning, champ!
Well, it was ADGT rules, so who knows how or even if that is covered.

That said, by PDGA rule, there's no warning or penalty for picking up an OB disc before a lie is marked. Where the disc is at rest in an OB area has no bearing at all on where or when the next lie is marked.
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  #32  
Old 08-08-2017, 01:44 PM
Major Tomahawk Major Tomahawk is offline
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Originally Posted by JC17393 View Post
Well, it was ADGT rules, so who knows how or even if that is covered.

That said, by PDGA rule, there's no warning or penalty for picking up an OB disc before a lie is marked. Where the disc is at rest in an OB area has no bearing at all on where or when the next lie is marked.
You're correct, there is no rule, but there should be imo. For instance, you are playing a round in norcal where the 2m rule is always enforced. Your disc gets caught up in a tree above 2m. You knock your disc out of the tree with a baseball. Do you now guess where the disc was stuck? It's the same for throwing over an ob line. Should you not establish where the disc was last in and mark it before you pick up your disc? It makes logical sense to me to mark your disc before retrieving it, but you are correct, I couldn't find a rule covering those instances.
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Old 08-08-2017, 03:31 PM
_MTL_ _MTL_ is offline
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Originally Posted by Major Tomahawk View Post
When I first turned the show on, Barry threw out of bounds. He didn't follow the rules as he picked up his disc and then proceeded to mark his lie. That's a warning, champ!
The rules only say group decision.

Picking it up before the group makes the call is honestly no different than a disc being lost in a lake and the group making a judgement call of where the drop is. We know 9 out of 10 times, the drop isn't exactly where it should be.

That being said, it's not smart to do what he did. Could easily cost yourself a few feet on a drop.
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  #34  
Old 08-08-2017, 04:47 PM
JC17393 JC17393 is offline
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Originally Posted by Major Tomahawk View Post
You're correct, there is no rule, but there should be imo. For instance, you are playing a round in norcal where the 2m rule is always enforced. Your disc gets caught up in a tree above 2m. You knock your disc out of the tree with a baseball. Do you now guess where the disc was stuck? It's the same for throwing over an ob line. Should you not establish where the disc was last in and mark it before you pick up your disc? It makes logical sense to me to mark your disc before retrieving it, but you are correct, I couldn't find a rule covering those instances.
First, above 2m is not OB. Two different rules so I don't see them as comparable. According to the rules, you have to know where a suspended disc is to mark the lie directly underneath it. So of course you can't move it before you mark the lie.

But with OB, where the disc is doesn't necessarily tell you anything about how it got there. Presumably, if you're marking it at the last point it was in-bounds, you know where that point is regardless of where the disc comes to rest. Can it occasionally be helpful to see the disc in order to triangulate the last in-bounds point? Sure. But not always, therefore there's no need for a rule that requires the disc be left in place until the lie is marked.
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  #35  
Old 08-08-2017, 04:57 PM
Major Tomahawk Major Tomahawk is offline
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Originally Posted by JC17393 View Post
So of course you can't move it before you mark the lie.
Where's the rule that states the above? And where's the rule that says what to do if you don't mark the lie before knocking down the disc? I didn't find anything of that nature.
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  #36  
Old 08-08-2017, 05:23 PM
JC17393 JC17393 is offline
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Originally Posted by Major Tomahawk View Post
Where's the rule that states the above? And where's the rule that says what to do if you don't mark the lie before knocking down the disc? I didn't find anything of that nature.
Ok, I'll amend from "can't move the disc" to "shouldn't move the disc".

802.02 C states that with a disc above the playing surface, it's position is directly below it on the playing surface for the purposes of marking the lie. You can't really determine where directly below the disc is if the disc is moved before that position is identified and marked. Pretty common sense.

802.02 E says that if a disc not on the playing surface is moved before its position is established, it need not be returned to its position (per 804.03 C) and approximate position can be determined relative to where the disc was originally.

That last bit covers both suspended discs and OB discs pretty well if you ask me. There is no penalty for moving either disc before a lie is marked. It's just far more helpful to keep a suspended disc in place before marking the lie before moving it. Not so much for an OB disc.
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  #37  
Old 08-09-2017, 09:28 AM
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Discette Discette is offline
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Originally Posted by JC17393 View Post
Ok, I'll amend from "can't move the disc" to "shouldn't move the disc".

802.02 C states that with a disc above the playing surface, it's position is directly below it on the playing surface for the purposes of marking the lie. You can't really determine where directly below the disc is if the disc is moved before that position is identified and marked. Pretty common sense.

802.02 E says that if a disc not on the playing surface is moved before its position is established, it need not be returned to its position (per 804.03 C) and approximate position can be determined relative to where the disc was originally.

That last bit covers both suspended discs and OB discs pretty well if you ask me. There is no penalty for moving either disc before a lie is marked. It's just far more helpful to keep a suspended disc in place before marking the lie before moving it. Not so much for an OB disc.

I think the confusion stems from trying to apply 804.04E here - (which by the way, this was not a PDGA event and they didn't have a rule for this situation, so .....)


PDGA 804.04 E

F. If the thrower moves the disc before a determination regarding its out-of-bounds status has been made, the disc shall be considered out-of-bounds.



Barry was obviously OB. Usually a player will ask the group for a spot, but if it is obvious, there is no need. Plus there is this:


https://youtu.be/RFZrzg62Zj0

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  #38  
Old 08-09-2017, 11:01 AM
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HarkeyPuck HarkeyPuck is offline
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Is there a link to any of the coverage?
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