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Old 09-19-2012, 11:37 AM
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davetherocketguy davetherocketguy is offline
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Default Scientific analysis of disc flight?

So I have been browsing the various flight charts across the interwebs and I keep finding the same thing. Some numbers. Unit-less numbers. Numbers that were derived by people throwing a particular mold and thus giving their opinions. Of them, I think Joes Flight chart seems to be the best. *

This got me wondering, has anyone ever tried to develop a more scientific approach to determine the flight path of a particular disc? *Wouldn't it be possible to create either a machine or wind tunnel that is capable of tossing a disc exactly the same over and over? *Imagine being able to toss a disc at a preset (and adjustable) velocity, angle, rpm, etc. *Chart the flights and come up with an analysis saying for example "an Z plastic Buzzz will turn 0 degrees during high speed and fade 2 degrees off center when thrown with __ velocity, __ rpm, __ angle of attack." * I think this would be helpful to the community as a whole. *Players could more easily determine optimal flights of their discs and whether or not a disc would suit their throwing style prior to purchase.*

Has there been any attempt at such a thing? *Not sure what to search for here - prerube help a brotha out!*
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Old 09-19-2012, 11:40 AM
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davetherocketguy davetherocketguy is offline
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(please ignore the asterisks, I am posting from my iPhone and I could not fix it all prior to the 5 minute monster kicking in...not sure why it did that.)
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Old 09-19-2012, 11:46 AM
Ryan C Ryan C is offline
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There are many things that stand in the way of this ever happening. For one, who would pay for it? And second, who would care?

But I think the most important reason is that the data would not be very meaningful. In fact, almost completely.

If you had exact numbers, those numbers would only be true for a throw with that EXACT velocity, that EXACT, angle, the EXACT RPM's, and worse, that exact disc that was used in testing. I hate to bring this up, but these tests would only begin to show a shred if usefulness if all discs across a mold were identical.

So who on earth could actually use any of that data meaningfully?
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Old 09-19-2012, 11:56 AM
JoshEpoo JoshEpoo is offline
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Take a look at Vibram's discs. They use units. Throw the disc over/under a certain cruising speed and it will bank a certain number of degrees in a direction based on how fast you threw it. It's not perfect but it's an attempt at a more rigorous rating system.
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Old 09-19-2012, 12:05 PM
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So Ryan, the current ambiguous rating systems are good enough? I don't know who would pay for it...just curious if it has been done. Also, from analysis like that it would be easy to determine the fps a player is throwing so determining whether or not discing down or up is warranted.

Unit less numbers are (to me at least) slightly above useless. Also, creating a device that can throw discs consistently is a challenge but most certainly NOT impossible.
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Old 09-19-2012, 12:12 PM
Ryan C Ryan C is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davetherocketguy View Post
So Ryan, the current ambiguous rating systems are good enough? I don't know who would pay for it...just curious if it has been done. Also, from analysis like that it would be easy to determine the fps a player is throwing so determining whether or not discing down or up is warranted.

Unit less numbers are (to me at least) slightly above useless. Also, creating a device that can throw discs consistently is a challenge but most certainly NOT impossible.
I'm not saying our current rating system is great, but good enough? Yes, I think so.

No matter how much data there is out there, it wont match a players actual experiences. The best way to tell if you like a disc will always be to just throw one.
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Old 09-19-2012, 12:16 PM
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The charts at http://www.inboundsdiscgolf.com/cont...age_id=431#Top seem fairly accurate and allow you to make visual comparisons of three different discs.

Realize that any single disc can fly in a variety of ways with varying degrees of snap, arm speed, release angle, and disc orientation. What's golden for one player might be lead for another.
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Old 09-19-2012, 12:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davetherocketguy View Post
So Ryan, the current ambiguous rating systems are good enough?
Yes.

There are a number of problems with the level of analysis that you're proposing:
1. Cost - it would be extremely expensive with very little reward.
2. Accuracy - You have to take into account so many factors (wind, grip, arm speed, release angle, elevation, elevation gain/loss, etc) that any results would have a huge margin of error. So even if you can ascribe units, they would have to be taken with a grain of salt and would probably offer no greater value (maybe even less) than the current systems in use.
3. Format - What would this report even look like. You want units, but what units are there for turn or fade? Do you want to go the detail of "Disc X released flat at sea level with a speed of 50 mph will turn 13 degrees and move 10 feet to the right before flattening and fading 20 feet to the left." That just seems far more confusing than a relative scale.

And to answer your other question: no, this has not been done. Vibram at least uses some units in their ratings, but their analysis is no more scientific than any other manufacturer. It's all based on sending testers into the field to rate them.
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Old 09-19-2012, 12:18 PM
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Yeah I think I'm okay with the current rating systems. The discs (excepting the Groove of course) fly pretty much that flight path for the majority of throwers, so if you don't hit that path and it isn't windy you can assume that you did something wrong. I definitely prefer the numbering system that Innova and Latitude use to Discraft's number though, because a "9, 4, -1, 3" tells you a whole lot more than a "0.5". Can't say I'd complain if they took away the "glide" number though, because really... I've sent a River farther than anything else, so I get that it has extra glide, but I've also thrown a Trident (glide 2 supposedly) farther than a Beast when I release them both on the line that I want.
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Old 09-19-2012, 12:21 PM
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if we are going for science here ill give you my take.

removing all the variables that you can is the way to do it. use sometihng like a clay target thrower retrofitted for discs. same throw every time with each disc and record the flight. flat anny and hyzer releases and record the flights and call it done. I may have smoked too much today so take this post with a grain of salt!
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